WI: Wright Brothers were never born?

Hi. I"m new here, and as something of a developing fascination with airships, I have to wonder: what would happen in the world of flight if the Wright Brothers were never born and consequently, powered flight remains unattainable (at least for a significantly longer time than OTL.

I'm looking for any and all ideas, so long as they retain technological feasibility.

If anyone is aware of similar timelines and scenarios, please direct me to them.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
assasin is right. There's actually some dispute over who was first in OTL - it depends what you mean by "first". First powered flight, first flight using own engine, first flight using own engine for takeoff, first flight taking off from the ground, first manned flight... (e.g. Whitehead, Alberto Santos-Dumont, and Maxim.)

Let's just sum it up as "someone else does it, possibly within the year".

There's this concept of what some people call "Steam engine time". That is, the time when an invention suddenly becomes not merely possible but very feasible indeed. Steam Engines are one example, in that there were several different steam engine pioneers with their own designs more or less at the same time - Watt is at least in part remembered because of his good marketing.

Same with the Wright brothers and flight. They were first, but not by much.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Okay, then. Let's revise the criterion: Powered flight isn't developed until significantly later, like mid-20th-century.

And yes, I know that would mean having an admin move this to the After 1900 thread.

No, it's the PoD not the time period which governs where a thread goes.

And the tricky thing is that you'd need a PoD WELL back. As noted, everything was "clicking" at that point in history. To retard it, you'd almost have to retard the development of science/technology at all.

(So long as there's an engine, then the already present absolute obsession with flight - specifically powered flight - that crops up over and over again through human history will mean someone sticks one on a large glider.)

So... can the internal combustion engine be gotten rid of? For a while I thought you could stop refinement of oil, but turns out at least two people came up with it independently, so no dice there. As for the ICE itself, it was basically a modified steam engine, so the tech is there.

This sounds like a bloody hard one, actually.
 
No, it's the PoD not the time period which governs where a thread goes.

And powered flight, vs. Wright Bros. births, is post-1900. Wright bros. were born in 1867 and 1871.

This sounds like a bloody hard one, actually.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm tempted to stand on a podium and scream, "RELEASE THE ALIEN SPACE BATS!!! FLY, MY PRETTIES, FLY!!" just to see someone take the idea and run with it, disregarding the lack of feasibility entirely.

Part of me really wants to see WWI and WWII, in particular, without powered aircraft.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
And powered flight, vs. Wright Bros. births, is post-1900. Wright bros. were born in 1867 and 1871.



Yeah, I can see that. I'm tempted to stand on a podium and scream, "RELEASE THE ALIEN SPACE BATS!!! FLY, MY PRETTIES, FLY!!" just to see someone take the idea and run with it, disregarding the lack of feasibility entirely.

Part of me really wants to see WWI and WWII, in particular, without powered aircraft.

By 1900, no powered aircraft by about 1910 is basically impossible. Too many people have too many projects, the engines exist, the gliders are basically structurally sound and there's very little work left to do.
You have to go well back past 1900 to make no powered flight happen.

And even then, there'll be knock on effects. WW1 may not happen. (WW2 almost certainly won't.)


But by all means, go raise the idea in the ASB forum. (e.g. "For some reason, Janker the ASB decides to make all the attempts at powered flight keep failing - the engines aren't producing enough power, the structure falls apart - for many years, and from then on keeps making aircraft prototypes break so that the development of aircraft is slowed considerably over OTL to the point that no combat capable aircraft exist as of 1940.")
 
But by all means, go raise the idea in the ASB forum. (e.g. "For some reason, Janker the ASB decides to make all the attempts at powered flight keep failing - the engines aren't producing enough power, the structure falls apart - for many years, and from then on keeps making aircraft prototypes break so that the development of aircraft is slowed considerably over OTL to the point that no combat capable aircraft exist as of 1940.")

Sometimes, all it takes to add a little feasibility to an idea is Orange-and-Blue morality reality manipulators doing things for no discernible reason. :)

Oh, there's a gem for another effect: some crazy guy, noticing that powered flight and aircraft are constantly failing, develops a theory that some MYSTERIOUS FORCE doesn't want people to advance powered flight.

Anyway, yeah, I think I'll take this over to the ASB forum and see how it fares.
 
So... can the internal combustion engine be gotten rid of? For a while I thought you could stop refinement of oil, but turns out at least two people came up with it independently, so no dice there. As for the ICE itself, it was basically a modified steam engine, so the tech is there.

And even without internal combustion several steam powered airplanes were built and successfully flown in the early 1930s. And this is after the ICE was proven successful for flight when there was almost no interest in a steam plane. Without the ICE I think you'd see more steam attempts and research in lighter more efficient steam engines and likely see a successful steam plane before 1920.
 
To have powered heavier than air flight delayed until the 20th century, you have to change the entire development of light alloys, internal combustion engines, aerodynamics, and somehow remove the almost innate human urge to fly like a bird. I suppose a believable series of PoDs could be created to have efficient dirigibles developed a few decades earlier and that might help delay heavier than air flight a few years, but airships do not satisfy the human urge to fly in the same way that airplanes and even gliders do. They are ships...not not something an individual person can zoom around in. Airships might last a few more years than in OTL, and even survive for quite a while as large, long range transports, but eventually airplanes will replace them.
 
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