WI World War II if USA was allied with Germany and Japan with UK and USSR

Lets assume that instead of FDR we get a fascist-sympathetic, it not outright fascist, administration in the USA. Instead of the Atlantic Charter IOTL there is an agreement with Germany to dismantle what is left of the British Empire.

The USA is still hostile to Japan, and vice versa, so for lack of alternatives the UK and Japan have to draw close to each other, and close to the USSR since Barbarossa still happens.

How does that war go? My first thought is the Axis wins, but there may be valid counter-arguments.
 
This could make for a very interesting scenario. I can see WWII ending in a ceasefire where the Soviets dominate, at the very least, eastern Europe while the Americans take a lot of the former British and French colonial empires. I like the idea of this becoming a dystopian Cold War where a Stalinist Russia dominates OTL eastern bloc while France, Benelux, Great Britain, West Germany, and Italy are either fascist or ultra conservative.
 
You would probably need a scenario where both the US and Germany lost WWI together for this.
I don't think the US necessarily needs to lose. Maybe an ultranationalist anti-communist rises to power and War Plan Red is put into effect.
 
Lets assume that instead of FDR we get a fascist-sympathetic, it not outright fascist, administration in the USA. Instead of the Atlantic Charter IOTL there is an agreement with Germany to dismantle what is left of the British Empire.

The USA is still hostile to Japan, and vice versa, so for lack of alternatives the UK and Japan have to draw close to each other, and close to the USSR since Barbarossa still happens.

How does that war go? My first thought is the Axis wins, but there may be valid counter-arguments.

Well, for starters China is now firmly in the German-American camp, since any British-Japanese rapprochement means London has to accept their ally's long standing interests in the country (Possibly splitting influence within the country on a mutual pro-Imperial/protectionist policy and search for captive markets and raw materials to bolster their faltering domestic industry). The Nationalists then are going to be receiving Nazi-American aid during the critical pre-war years in terms of technical expertise, investment, ect. that will make them a more (if not exactly overpowering) conventional combatent with a more robust economy in its showdown with the Imperials, likely having incorperated the warlords better and having effectively purged the Communists who will have fled to the Soviet Union. This will turn the Asian front into a pretty solid resource sink, especially since the British ability to send meaningful support would be limited without L-L, American loans, and the need to bolster defences elsewhere against American agression and defend the Home Isles from the Germans. Still, the Pacific theature is rather rosey from a naval point of veiw: the Dutch East Indies is likely to collaberate with the Japanese with the dutch government-in-exile under British protection and American positions in the Phillipenes hopelessly exposed.

However, the Imperials are quickly going to run into one huge problem: The economy, specifically in the form of calories. Once Barbarossa snatches up the good Soviet farmland, they're all massively calorie-deficet homelands whose merchant shipping is now at deep risk, sucked into the need to sustain the war effort, or otherwise indisposed and who's best markets are now either under hostile control or highly vulnerable to Axis pressure, invasion, or indication. This is all assuming they could scrape together the cash to pay for what they'd need on the international market, which they can't, and rationing can only go so far: particularly when mechanized agriculture is also going to be taking a huge knock from lack of civilian fuel. Rather quickly, they'll find they can't keep up a good homefront quality of life unlike the American-German Axis, and will need guns over butter in order to hold out, which I imagine will very quickly lead to a collapse in the British war party or at the very least a breakdown in the solidarity of the Empire, with South Africa and India being the first to jump ship if England tries to lean on them too hard and Canada either not declaring war at all (Essentially declaring independence at the start of the war, excersising its independent forgien policy) or quickly falling to the Americans. Its only a matter of time before the same fate befalls the Soviets, and Britain and Japan find they can't keep the underlying civilian economy needed to support a Total War running on what fumes they have.
 
You guys seems to be forgetting that the U.S. basically fought WWI to say that "Democracy is Good for Europeans, other systems which don't at least pay lip service to being a democracy (for Europeans) is bad! You need to handwavium 1910s, 1920s U.S. ideology first, or preferably give some enhance the reason the U.S. could fight a war in the teens for democracy and then becoem facists. This isn't the Hearts of Iron video game. :winkytongue: Anglo-Saxonism recides in the 40s, to be sure, but it is still a force to be reconked with at that time, and overwhelming in 20s and 30s.
 
I've read here that the US and Britain almost went to war in the 1920's due to disagreements over naval treaties, I don't think it came too close to war but I understand there was some bad blood between the US and the UK.
What if though the US & UK did fight a short naval war in the 20's and this leads to Germany and the US growing closer? IMO I'd say the US & Germany win.
 
You guys seems to be forgetting that the U.S. basically fought WWI to say that "Democracy is Good for Europeans, other systems which don't at least pay lip service to being a democracy (for Europeans) is bad! You need to handwavium 1910s, 1920s U.S. ideology first, or preferably give some enhance the reason the U.S. could fight a war in the teens for democracy and then becoem facists. This isn't the Hearts of Iron video game. :winkytongue: Anglo-Saxonism recides in the 40s, to be sure, but it is still a force to be reconked with at that time, and overwhelming in 20s and 30s.

There is a huge difference between advocated motives and actual truest motives. And Russia was all but a democracy during WW1.

The reason for US fought WW1 was that it shared very strong economic ties with western powers and that its geopolitical vision was quite the same as Britain. It was Mackinder in action.
 
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