WI: World War I with 1930s technology

First of all, if you are looking to accelerate technological development thirty years, this at the very least makes this a pre-1900 POD, since accomplishing such a thing would be damn near impossible with a post 1900 POD.

Secondly, technology in OTL 1930's(especially on the military front) was heavily influenced by the events of WWI. Getting an alternate 20th century with 1930's era technology in the teens where the technology is fairly comparable to OTL and getting WWI to happen at around the same time in stead of much earlier or never at all is borderline ASB.

Third, having all these changes to the TL will make it almost guaranteed that the participants, alliances, motivations, and theaters of this alternate WWI will be drastically different.
 
Difficult with a post-1900 POD if you want anything close to the WW1 positions. For one, you'd need to butterfly the Russo-Japanese war so the Russian command doesn't realise until much later the big issues with their military. Of course, things won't be quite the same as the OTL 1930s (at what point in the decade BTW?), since the exact technology was part-and-parcel of the world as it was.

One example of this is solar power. In 1913, Frank Shuman has a prototype solar thermal power station built at Maadi in order to draw water from the Nile for irrigation. Now in OTL his work was interrupted and mostly forgotten due to WW1, but without the war, or with it delayed until at least the early 20s, solar-thermal plants will be, I suspect, much more widespread.

Another field that will see huge changes is Aeronautics, both to the technology and to the companies. Without (or with a delayed) WW1, you keep Airco and Sopwith, at the cost of De Havilland and Hawker. Technology will also likely be significantly different if Igor Sikorsky's prototype airliner actually sees its intended use, which might well spur other nations to try large, multi-engined designs. In addition, airships will be much worse off, as OTL only 29 were launched prior to the war (27 German, 1 British, 1 French), while 8 were launched between the start of the war and the end of 1914, and 31 in 1915. Without this war construction far fewer, perhaps no more than 10 in any year, which combined with the potential rise of heavier-than-air airliners, and certain rise of smaller HTA aircraft, will likely see them relegated soon enough to long-haul and heavy-lift roles, akin to the C5 today.

Also, there'll be no tanks, though perhaps more armoured cars, and maybe even armoured trucks as primitive APCs.
 
Also, there'll be no tanks, though perhaps more armoured cars, and maybe even armoured trucks as primitive APCs.

Well, maybe tanks. You could have the OTL 1905 Austrian proposal for a tank (with surprisingly modern characteristics - smaller tracks and a turret), the Burstyn Motogeschutz, be adopted by the Austrians (and a general switch towards armoured cars as a result of Austrian high command choosing that over armoured trains unlike OTL).

Provided a small-scale demonstration of early armoured warfare, you could see the development of tanks spread to other nations. Austria might not have the resources or the will to pursue the strategy to its logical outcome, but a demonstration (say, putting down a rebelling Honved during the 1907 Ausgleich or a limited war with Serbia) might intrigue other countries to play follow the leader and begin developing their own armoured forces.

Of course, the logistics wouldn't be up to a full-on mechanized army (they weren't up to it in WWII for the most part), but strides could be made in the direction.
 

Deleted member 1487

What are the chances of having a WWI with 1930s technology?

Note that in this scenario, WWI doesn't need to happen exactly in 1914.
If you delay the war until the 1930s then its 100% doable.
 
If you delay the war until the 1930s then its 100% doable.

No - many of the 1930 (military) technologies are result of the war fought.

While there might be technologies developed that are more advanced than OTL, some others will be delayed. Some tech will probably go in another direction.

Germany was denied some sorts of weapon after Versailles (and lost not a few patents). Skip WWI as weknow it until the 30s Germany will develop uninterrupted.

IN addition the 30s saw a leap in technology. For example biplanes were slowly cast away in favor of monoplanes

What IS 30s technology?
 

Deleted member 1487

No - many of the 1930 (military) technologies are result of the war fought.

While there might be technologies developed that are more advanced than OTL, some others will be delayed. Some tech will probably go in another direction.

Germany was denied some sorts of weapon after Versailles (and lost not a few patents). Skip WWI as weknow it until the 30s Germany will develop uninterrupted.

IN addition the 30s saw a leap in technology. For example biplanes were slowly cast away in favor of monoplanes

What IS 30s technology?
I'm making a semantics argument here, by definition a war delayed to the 1930s is fought with 1930s tech, just not OTL 1930s tech, but the OP didn't specify that. I'm inclined to say that without WW1 and the expense in terms of money, destruction of land/property, reduced economic growth, and loss of life/potential scientists/engineers/workers, then technology would be more advanced than IOTL 1930s. Assuming a war 20 years later than IOTL Europe would be more advanced than OTL Europe was in 1934 due to all of the above factors and the economic problems of the 1920s-30s being avoided and higher birthrates. So ITTL the 1910s-30s would see a period of extensive growth in terms of technology, economies, and militaries as there would be reforms of political systems generations of people born and coming of age that otherwise wouldn't have existed, and a lot of military investment due to the arms race ramping up since 1905.

Germany too had hit a wall in terms of its horse population, so needed to start investing in automotive supply methods, while also would have to accept by 1916 that Schlieffen was no longer the plan due to Russian rail investments. And the Russian military expansion meant that Germany was for sure outnumbered. That would mean having to spend hard on the army to stay competitive with France and Russia given that the Habsburgs had a political problem with spending and were not keeping pace with likely enemies.

Likely a war coming in 1934 or thereabouts, roughly 20 years later, would be more advanced technologically then due to all the savings of not having a World War in the 1910s and the pressing need for military investment by all sides in the arms race in Europe. At very least there would be much more room for investments in trucks and having production there for large numbers of truck borne or at least supplied divisions, as horses became less of an option and the Ottoman Empire found and developed greater oil resources. Arguably the armies of TTL 1930s would be more advanced than the ones of OTL 1930s due to no period of disarmament and lack of investment due to WW1 costs. They'd have more trucks and aircraft overall, but less practical tactical/operational doctrine and organization due to no combat experience. It would make for an interesting TL or at least war game to figure out how things would have been and played out.
 
Well, maybe tanks. You could have the OTL 1905 Austrian proposal for a tank (with surprisingly modern characteristics - smaller tracks and a turret), the Burstyn Motogeschutz, be adopted by the Austrians (and a general switch towards armoured cars as a result of Austrian high command choosing that over armoured trains unlike OTL).
The issue being that tracks first developed thanks to having to cope with the muddy battlefields of the Western Front, in other places wheels would have been more effective. This isn't saying no armoured vehicles, simply no tanks.

No - many of the 1930 (military) technologies are result of the war fought.

While there might be technologies developed that are more advanced than OTL, some others will be delayed. Some tech will probably go in another direction.
Precisely.

Germany was denied some sorts of weapon after Versailles (and lost not a few patents). Skip WWI as weknow it until the 30s Germany will develop uninterrupted.
It's not just Germany, everyone lost massive amounts of money and huge numbers of men, plus the post-war glut of equipment (particularly) aircraft saw a number of companies in financial difficulty, and that without the Great Depression.

What IS 30s technology?
I've asked that myself, and I'm yet to receive an answer.

They'd have more trucks and aircraft overall, but less practical tactical/operational doctrine and organization due to no combat experience. It would make for an interesting TL or at least war game to figure out how things would have been and played out.
I would argue that this isn't true. Remember how badly Britain and France faired in the early part of WW2? this was mostly due to the doctrines developed during WW1 being imprinted in the brains of the senior officers. Take away WW1 and you're left with a situation where the upper echelons don't really know what the best way to fight is, so they'll actually try to figure it out, rather than making assumptions. What will suffer is NCO experience, which is just as bad, but in a different way.
 
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The issue being that tracks first developed thanks to having to cope with the muddy battlefields of the Western Front, in other places wheels would have been more effective. This isn't saying no armoured vehicles, simply no tanks.

See this below? 1905 proposal for a trench-crossing vehicle by Gunther Burstyn. Tracks - albeit small ones (also, turret). There's a scale model here. The two spars (actually, there's four, two on each side) were meant to aid in crossing trenches, but it's likely those would've been removed in time.
burstynDRAW.gif


The idea for a tracked vehicle predated WWI, actually. Someone taking a chance could've very well resulted in tanks becoming part of national arsenals.
 
See this below? 1905 proposal for a trench-crossing vehicle by Gunther Burstyn. Tracks - albeit small ones (also, turret). There's a scale model here. The two spars (actually, there's four, two on each side) were meant to aid in crossing trenches, but it's likely those would've been removed in time.
burstynDRAW.gif


The idea for a tracked vehicle predated WWI, actually. Someone taking a chance could've very well resulted in tanks becoming part of national arsenals.
Tactical realities. Tracks developed as they did because the Western Front degenerated into trench warfare. but with 1930s tech, everyone is much more mobile and so trench warfare is unlikely to develop. Also remember, tanks are comparatively high-maintenance beasties (more complex drivetrain and suspension, plus tracks), and they're slower (40 mph for the Tetrarch light tank vs 50 mph for the Humber armoured car). Oh you might eventually get tanks, in the same way as OTL, but I doubt you'd start out with them.

If you have tracked vehicles at all I'd expect them to some mix of half-tracks, Christies converible tracked vehicles and something akin to the Fergeson tractors used in the OTL Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition.
 
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trurle

Banned
First, the biplanes are unlikely to be as widespread as IOTL. Biplanes were effective fighters during WWI because of superior maneuverability, but if tech is allowed to develop to 1930 level without war, the improvement of early monoplanes (better range and speed, important for airliners) is much more likely.
Also, i agree what the development of tracked armoured vehicles is less likely. More probable is armoured cars and rail-capable armoured cars - as results of better road and rail networks implied by 1930 tech level.

Also (most grotesque) is going to be some sort of recoilless-gun armed cavalry. To fit with the dominant doctrines of mobility and firepower (likely tested in some colonial wars before WWI). Idea will be to suppress machine gun nests out of their range. Of course, will be a major slaughter of these gun-cavalry troops after the WWI will start after all.:eek:
 
Let's start with 1930.

The OTL 1930s weapons technology existed as a result of the Great War .Without the war the technology is going to be very different. Do you mean what would a WWI look like if it broke out in the 1930's?
 
Let's start with 1930.
Okay, good, that's a date at least. At this point it's possible to fly to America if you do it in several legs (Uk-Iceland-Greenland-Newfoundland-Canada). For best results, use seaplanes, at least then you have the possibility of surviving long enough to be rescued if you need to make an impromptu 'landing' (seaing?).

As for timing for thing new war, I could see it coming off in the mid 20s, which may seem a touch early, but without the disruption and destruction of WW1, the European powers aren't going to be held back as they were OTL.

On the ground the players will start off with no (or few) tanks, but plenty of armoured cars, and maybe some armoured trucks (as APCs) too. If tracked vehicles appear I suspect they'll me mostly towing artillery, or perhaps mounting some of it, mostly howitzers.
 
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