WI:WNT allowed 15,000 ton Heavy Cruisers?

This all ignores the fact that the British wanted more cruisers because of their large empire and were the ones pushing for a lower tonnage per ship in order to be able to spread a limited amount of tonnage over more ships.

Yes this is very bad news for the Royal Navies of the British Empire. They will have to build large cruisers to match the Japanese so there will be 15,000 ton Counties and Southamptons plus possibly 12,000 ton Yorks, when they would prefer to be mass producing Leanders and Arethusas.

This might mean less money for destroyers and minor war vessels.
 
Indeed, lol.:eek:

As Noel Cowerd once sang, "Lets not be beastly to the Germans," at least when it comes to the naval provisions of the Treaty of Versailles.

8 coast defence ships - 15,000 metric tons and 15" guns

8 cruisers - 9,000 metric tons but still 6" guns

24 destroyers of (I think) 800 metric tons instead of 12 and 12 torpedo boats of (I think) 200 tons.

Just to make it interesting.
 
It's also very bad news for the German panzerschiffen.

Maybe not. The justification for such a different limit (50% above the 10,000 tons IOTL) might be that the Germans had been limited to 15,000 tons and 11" guns as part of the Versailles Treaty
 
Maybe not. The justification for such a different limit (50% above the 10,000 tons IOTL) might be that the Germans had been limited to 15,000 tons and 11" guns as part of the Versailles Treaty
Of course, this would logically require that cruisers be allowed 11-inch guns as well. And somebody would try, probably the Japanese. That would be an interesting ship... :eek:
 
Found a couple of good looking 'super town' designs (okay the first is a British take on a Armoured Cruiser hunter - but I think its on the heavy side

http://tzoli.deviantart.com/art/Churchill-s-Super-Cruiser-427601973

http://tzoli.deviantart.com/art/Admiral-class-Heavy-Cruiser-429011021

http://tzoli.deviantart.com/art/Improved-Exeter-179532760

The British did order 6 Super Edinburghs in the 1944 Programme, but they were cancelled at the end of the war. I don't remember the displacement, but they were to mount twelve 6" in 4 triple Mk 25 turrets and twelve 4.5" in twin Mk 6 turrets.
 
Maybe not. The justification for such a different limit (50% above the 10,000 tons IOTL) might be that the Germans had been limited to 15,000 tons and 11" guns as part of the Versailles Treaty

I don't have my copy of Whitley at hand to check, but that sounds very similar to the specification for Panserschffen D to F before they were cancelled to make way for The Twins.

If the Treaty of Versailles had allowed the German coast defence battleships to be armed with 15" guns that means the Twins would have been completed with six of them in three twin turrets instead of the nine 11" in three triple turrets. With some jggery pokery (like not building Graff Zeppelin and Aircraft Carrier B) they could even have built a pair of Bismarcks instead of The Twins.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I don't have my copy of Whitley at hand to check, but that sounds very similar to the specification for Panserschffen D to F before they were cancelled to make way for The Twins.

If the Treaty of Versailles had allowed the German coast defence battleships to be armed with 15" guns that means the Twins would have been completed with six of them in three twin turrets instead of the nine 11" in three triple turrets. With some jggery pokery (like not building Graff Zeppelin and Aircraft Carrier B) they could even have built a pair of Bismarcks instead of The Twins.
Though as you relax ToV provisions you do slowly reduce the degree to which Germans hated it. It's an incremental effect, it's just something to remember - that sooner or later one will reach a point where the Nazis don't show up at all.
Perhaps more likely though is that the focus will be on renegotiating other aspects of the ToV given the naval part is nice and lenient.
 
Though as you relax ToV provisions you do slowly reduce the degree to which Germans hated it. It's an incremental effect, it's just something to remember - that sooner or later one will reach a point where the Nazis don't show up at all.
Perhaps more likely though is that the focus will be on renegotiating other aspects of the ToV given the naval part is nice and lenient.

Yes, but to paraphrase Herman Goering, "The German public wants to know how many warships we have, not how good they are?"

The changes I suggested improve the quality of the ships, but do increase the numbers. I haven't relaxed the restrictions on the German Army, lifted the ban on Germany having an air force or changed Germany's territorial losses.

Furthermore it was the Great Depression that brought the Nazis to power, not the German people's hatred of the Treaty of Versailles.
 
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