WI: William or Harry marry a black girl

Racism only really bubbles to the fore when the pot gets shaken. That's why things were so much worse for blacks in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War, and why there was so much violence in the Civil Rights era starting at the end of World War II. There's less of a base of racism, and it's an extremely different context, but I think that it would bring up some bad feelings - which would indeed end in grudging acceptance. There's really no other avenue there, it's not like there would be enough people to force anyone's hand, and if if there were, they almost certainly wouldn't dream of trying.
Number one, don't type that much, you're trying to end the discussion, and someone got banned for that.
This is bizarre. I typed exactly as much as I felt I needed to to make my argument, and I'm going to continue to do so. If I wanted to end the discussion, I'd do it, and now I am. I'm done with this.
 
The Inuit thing is a weird thing. It's sort of like Sioux, there's a divide on those who feel a more proper term should be used, but others who don't care and go by what they've always gone by. It's similar to Indian vs. Native American. Native American looks good on paper, but is awkward for everyday use.

Native is what I usually hear (possible because Canada is getting a lot of Indian immigrants lately so the confusion is actually a serious issue).
 
My thoughts:

I don't think it would matter too much for too long if a British royal, even one in the line of succession, marries someone who's not white, be they black or South Asian or East Asian or whatever. There'll be some grumbling, some celebration, as always, but it'll work out fine.

On the other hand, it would be a much bigger issue if a British royal married a non-Christian, or even a Catholic. For one thing, it would raise some complex legal issues - what if the kids adopt the faith of the non-Anglican? Would Britain really be comfortable with skipping them in the line of succession? And what if they are Muslim, or Sikh? There'd be a lot of intolerance. I don't know how exactly it'd play out, but I think religion is a much bigger deal than race here.

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
It probably depends on the woman herself. A younger Grace Jones would probably set a very different impression than a single equivalent to Beyonce.
 
Native is what I usually hear (possible because Canada is getting a lot of Indian immigrants lately so the confusion is actually a serious issue).

Native is huge in Canada. It's spreading in the US as well, particularly by the younger generations.
 
I think people would lose their fucking minds. Especially the people who actually care about the monarchy, who are probably the least likely to accept this. People might not start a lynch mob and storm the palace, but at the idea that they'll have a black king in the future, the headlines aren't going to all talk in lockstep about what a "pleasant shade of coffee as well" the royals will be. And the people on the street will be saying worse.

EDIT: Saying that England is all about classism and not racism is an easy dodge, because of course the entrenched upper class is almost entirely lily white, and minorities are to a large extent shut out of moving up (to the extent there's any class mobility even among whites).

As I'm the person being backseat-sniped at and accused of an 'easy dodge' because I used an understanding of British history and society beyond that which you seem to be aware of, allow me to respond.

You are, unfortunately, looking at this backwards. You're assuming that, like in your country, the biggest social barriers and prejudices stem from racial differences, and that Britain's famously rigid social class structure itself draws its dividing lines and logic from that. It doesn't. I could point you to the stories of Indian maharajahs being treated like the kings they were in the presence of British royalty, while their servants were treated with no greater or smaller disdain than that doled out to their white counterparts. I could tell you the story of the future Edward VII dining with the future Kaiser Wilhelm II and defending the presence of the King of Hawaii at their table - 'Either the brute's a nigger, or he's a King. If he's not the latter, then what's he doing here?', he said. Yes, he called him a nigger. Yes, a brute, too. And all the paternalistic, vile racism that stems from that is rightfully to be pointed out. But, to the Prince of Wales in the 1880s, a king was a king was a king. Class trumps race every time when it comes to the upper echelons in Britain. If you want to see black people of culture and learning being screamed at for the colour of their skin, you'd need to put an old Etonian black man in a council estate in Barking. This isn't to say that Earl Henry Bufton-Tufton is going to invite him grouse shooting either, but your image of mass public disturbances is comical in how wrong it is. I also like the idea of a national newspaper ever going to print again after printing a racist headline about a member of the family of the head of state. Perhaps in America (I recall a lot of 'Michelle is a chimp' jokes), but not here.

But those are anecdotal, specific examples that make for good reading in a narrative history of the Empire but perhaps would simply get your hackles up as you'd rather impose your country's social filters on the rest of the world for simplicity's sake. It's probably better that I explain you what the actual situation would be if a black woman had emerged as William's prospective bride. The answer lies in class, no matter how hard you scream.

You hypothesise that racism exists in Britain. Of course it does. It's more widespread than we'd like to think, and it's certainly not confined to buffoons at the top of society (paradoxically, they seem to be more likely to be completely uninterested in race than they are to be actively racist) or BNP-voting dregs at the bottom. But how our hypothetical black future queen is received depends very much on her background, not the colour of her skin.

If she is of a naturalised British descent, ie born to immigrants or second generation immigrants, it's likely she is Afro-Caribbean. These seem to be the least controversial of black people in the eyes of the British public, when you look at our popular actors, television personalities, politicians and other such public figures. This is largely a matter relating to time - of Britain's black community, the Windrush generation and those who followed have been here the longest (about 60 or so years) and as such, are the most 'got used to'. Any problem which emerged here would stem from her background and decorum - but, frankly, it's ASB for William to fall head over heels in love with someone who'd be called white trash if they were white, if only for the fact he lives in a controlled environment and would never meet her. He attended St Andrews - hardly a university known for its ethnic blend (not that many are - black students in particular are notoriously under-represented at British universities, for a complex array of reasons that does not, despite assumptions, prominently feature racism) and the qualifications required to attend that institution mean any Afro-Caribbean student he had a romance with would be educated, enlightened and 'proper', and there'd be very few people who would 'lose their fucking minds' over that, as you so eloquently put it. But we're getting off track.

If she were African, and, say, spoke with a thick Nigerian accent, then we're getting into territory where some Britons would feel more comfortable openly voicing some questions about suitability. They'd still be being racist, of course, but this is a matter again derived from the more recent African immigrant populations, and their perceived harshness (there is a stereotype of an angry, aggressive and unhelpful black African nurse present in NHS institutions, one that I can say from experience did not emerge from thin air). But even then these people would be a minority that outraged and embarrassed the majority, provided she is again suitable, but once again she wouldn't get to the stage where she'd be revealed to the public as a fiance if she were not. A cultured, intellectual and kind Ghanaian being mother to a future sovereign is going to upset some mouthbreathing knuckledraggers in the valleys but by and large she's not going to inspire a lynch mob.

I hope this has made clear why your comments have inflamed such a degree of zealous correction from myself and my fellow Britons. Othyrsyde's points are broadly fairer, but misses the mark when he/she says 'bringing up the fact that most of the upper class in UK is white is a valid point in discussing race vs. class'. Er, the entirety of the upper class in the UK is white. But that doesn't make it a valid point (or, indeed, a point at all) in a discussion of racial factors or social factors being the biggest stumbling block in British society. The upper class's entrenchment and unassailable position at the top of the social ladder (but not the real-world ladder - our country, businesses and governmental systems are run by the upper-middle class, which slowly but surely is becoming more ethnically diverse by the very nature of immigrant generation integration) is a phenomenon that dates back more than a thousand years before the Windrush came back from the West Indies. If you're not born into it, you're not getting into it. Because none of those Norman knights, Hanoverian nobles, or adjutants to Wellington, Nelson or Henry V were black, a black presence in the upper class isn't going to happen in this country, any more than there'll be a presence of trade unionists or public sector workers. It's not racism, it's classism - and it's not even active anymore. It's been passive for centuries.

Having read and reread your edit, in response to my comments above about Othyrsyde's version of what you said, I'm still trying to fathom what exact point you're trying to make. There are no black people in the upper classes because of long-term social reasons that you accept, therefore the upper classes are all racist and would shout and scream about a black princess? You may need to clarify what you mean, because at the moment all I'm seeing here is an Anglophobic non-sequitur.

I agree that if you want a greater controversy, you have to go for someone of Asian (actual Asian, not what the Americans call Asian) descent. Islamic faith would also cause a stir. Or, heaven forfend, Catholicism... ;)

This is bizarre. I typed exactly as much as I felt I needed to to make my argument, and I'm going to continue to do so. If I wanted to end the discussion, I'd do it, and now I am. I'm done with this.

On a note of truce (and as someone who has just, as you did, typed out what I felt was necessary to make my points), I would like to echo how ridiculous Turquoise Blue's warning seemed. What she was referring to was 'textwalling', which I believe has indeed led to kicks in the past but in those cases we were talking about pages and pages and pages of text that no-one would ever possibly have the time or energy to respond to. Not 'a medium sized post', as yours was. I'd say yours wasn't even that long - this one's long!
 
What if William marries an aboriginal from Australia? or an eskimo (or is it Inuit to be politically correct?)? A black woman is so yesterday.

Ivan
Give us our own reigning cadet branch descended from them and I may become, if not actually monarchist, at least monarchy-tolerant. If we have to have one it'd be nice if they lived here and were descended from here.

I think people would lose their fucking minds. Especially the people who actually care about the monarchy, who are probably the least likely to accept this.
Definitely. Hah, combining the above two ideas would be especially entertaining. :D
 
I wonder what the DailyMail would say?

They would be all smiles in public, there would simply be no other option if they wished to stay afloat as a national newspaper. Their proprietor might hold a different view, but I don't know Rothermere's views well enough to comment.
 
As I'm the person being backseat-sniped at and accused of an 'easy dodge' because I used an understanding of British history and society beyond that which you seem to be aware of, allow me to respond.

Spot on. *Applauds*

Arguably, if Carole Middleton was black she might have had fewer newspaper articles sneering at her for being a former air hostess.
 
No one ever heard of Queen Charlotte? Cosort of George III and number 5 on the list of 100 greatest Black Britons. It's already happened people, she was Queen Victoria's grandmother, and our current Queen acknowledged her Afrcan (and Asian) blood lines at her coronation.
 
Honestly, it would be far more interesting to see a British prince falling in love with and marrying a Japanese princess, though it would be even more unlikely and borderline ASB:p

That would be interesting if nothing else because of the potential political implications. Which throne would the children inherit? Would Japan enter some kind of purely symbolic personal union?
 
That would be interesting if nothing else because of the potential political implications. Which throne would the children inherit? Would Japan enter some kind of purely symbolic personal union?

If it's just some lesser princess, like say a cousin of the crown prince or something, then no big deal. Women can't inherit the Chrysanthemum Throne in Japan anyway.
 
As I'm the person being backseat-sniped at and accused of an 'easy dodge' because I used an understanding of British history and society beyond that which you seem to be aware of, allow me to respond...

I agree with you, which is why I made it clear my eyes see through the lens of the very racialized environment of the Americas. What I meant about class, was that the uppercrust, like any human being, prefer people like themselves, and since most people of color tend toward the poorer side of society, this would lead to unconscious and conscious preference for those of the same race and class. Though as you said, they would hands down prefer an upperclass black person with the same mannerisms and likes over a white kid from a county estate (that's what they're called right? sorry if I'm wrong), and that's if they cared about such things in the first place. As I've said, I believe in the end it would work out just fine and probably for the betterment of everyone.

No one ever heard of Queen Charlotte? Cosort of George III and number 5 on the list of 100 greatest Black Britons. It's already happened people, she was Queen Victoria's grandmother, and our current Queen acknowledged her Afrcan (and Asian) blood lines at her coronation.

Didn't know that. Must learn more.
 
othyrsyde;7004752 Didn't know that. Must learn more.[/QUOTE said:
Charlotte1767Cotes.jpg


Yes, she was quite the Nubian.
 
If they married an immigrant from India or any former British colony, irony of ironies would be my response.:p
 
I agree that if you want a greater controversy, you have to go for someone of Asian (actual Asian, not what the Americans call Asian) descent. Islamic faith would also cause a stir. Or, heaven forfend, Catholicism... ;)

Muslim may be an issue. Hindu or Sikh wouldn't be in all likelyhood. I don't think other than constitutional issues a Catholic would be a problem.
 
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