WI: William or Harry marry a black girl
- Thread starter othyrsyde
- Start date
Class not race
I have to agree with the above poster who said it's not just about blackness. If the girl was from a good background, (is there still African royalty around?) and was well-behaved, was able to fit into the Windsor lifestyle, and "knew which fork to use", there might be talk but little else.
It would also matter how ethnic said girl was. There is going to be a difference between someone who grew up in Africa all her life and one who lived in Europe or the US. Or for that matter a Jamaican or Haitian girl. Just the business of dress, a dashiki vs a tailored suit, is going to be noticed.
Of course the real scandal would be if the Prince was taken up with some high-class skank dripping with glam, a rapper princess type...
I have to agree with the above poster who said it's not just about blackness. If the girl was from a good background, (is there still African royalty around?) and was well-behaved, was able to fit into the Windsor lifestyle, and "knew which fork to use", there might be talk but little else.
It would also matter how ethnic said girl was. There is going to be a difference between someone who grew up in Africa all her life and one who lived in Europe or the US. Or for that matter a Jamaican or Haitian girl. Just the business of dress, a dashiki vs a tailored suit, is going to be noticed.
Of course the real scandal would be if the Prince was taken up with some high-class skank dripping with glam, a rapper princess type...
Yes, there are indeed. I was in the Peace Corps, and one of my fellow PCVs ended up marrying an African princess of the Buganda kingdom. She's like 89th in line to the throne or something, so it's a mostly meaningless title without any wealth or power, but they definitely still exist.
I have to agree with the above poster who said it's not just about blackness. If the girl was from a good background, (is there still African royalty around?) and was well-behaved, was able to fit into the Windsor lifestyle, and "knew which fork to use", there might be talk but little else.
It would also matter how ethnic said girl was. There is going to be a difference between someone who grew up in Africa all her life and one who lived in Europe or the US. Or for that matter a Jamaican or Haitian girl. Just the business of dress, a dashiki vs a tailored suit, is going to be noticed.
Of course the real scandal would be if the Prince was taken up with some high-class skank dripping with glam, a rapper princess type...
That kind of situation would be a real life latter-day Wallis Simpson. There'd be accusations of racism, of course, but there would be a far more real problem.
A voice from South Africa: I don't think anybody would care, really.
Didn't the prince of Monaco date a woman from Ethopia or something? but, alas, he didn't marry her after all.
What if William marries an aboriginal from Australia? or an eskimo (or is it Inuit to be politically correct?)? A black woman is so yesterday.
Ivan
Didn't the prince of Monaco date a woman from Ethopia or something? but, alas, he didn't marry her after all.
What if William marries an aboriginal from Australia? or an eskimo (or is it Inuit to be politically correct?)? A black woman is so yesterday.
Ivan
As William is already married that only leaves Harry and I think the objections from the black community about hair colour might be louder than any other!!
I sit across a desk from a member of African royalty every day at the office.
There are plenty of eligible royals, with 78 kings in Nigeria alone. Many of whom have relatives living in the UK (elite Nigerian families often have branches in the UK and United States), so there's an outside chance that Will or Harry could meet one at school or at work. I'd expect that outside the crabby racist demographic, a royal African fiancee would be a popular fashion-setter, although unfortunately, I doubt that a traditional Yoruba wedding would be on the cards.
I think people would lose their fucking minds. Especially the people who actually care about the monarchy, who are probably the least likely to accept this. People might not start a lynch mob and storm the palace, but at the idea that they'll have a black king in the future, the headlines aren't going to all talk in lockstep about what a "pleasant shade of coffee as well" the royals will be. And the people on the street will be saying worse.
EDIT: Saying that England is all about classism and not racism is an easy dodge, because of course the entrenched upper class is almost entirely lily white, and minorities are to a large extent shut out of moving up (to the extent there's any class mobility even among whites).
EDIT: Saying that England is all about classism and not racism is an easy dodge, because of course the entrenched upper class is almost entirely lily white, and minorities are to a large extent shut out of moving up (to the extent there's any class mobility even among whites).
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So you're saying that the British people would be racist if it applied to the Monarchy? Well, that's insulting and just plain idiotic. Its social effects that prevents most blacks from moving up the class ladder, not racism. Britain has mostly moved on from racism, and I think that people would accept a British Black princess and future Queen, and future black-looking Kings or Queens.
Here's my opinion. I think people getting really upset and foaming at the mouth racists would not occur, but I think some people are white washing racism a bit much as well. And bringing up the fact that most of the upper class in UK is white is a valid point in discussing race vs. class.
However, once the hype of the initial public dating ended, followed by the marriage (if that happened), the vast majority would accept it and even embrace it even more that society is overcoming race, especially once a kid is born.
As for the woman herself, I was picturing more a well to do black family that's been in Britain for generations rather than Yoruba royalty, but either would be cool.
deathscompanion1
Banned
Wrong race if you want controversy go for a middle easterner such as a pakistani.
Racism against Muslims is pretty high in some areas of the country.
Racism against Muslims is pretty high in some areas of the country.
I'm not saying that non-racist people are going to turn into racist werewolves, I'm saying that people who don't like the idea but who don't really give a flip if their across the street neighbor has a black wife are going to have somewhat stronger opinions about the wealthy and (somewhat) powerful embodiment of the English people and spirit.
The social effects spring from the long legacy of entrenched racism - I trust that, even if you discount racism now, you'll agree that racism was an issue when, and before, "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote for Labour" was a winning slogan. How would you tell, anyway? How can you positively say someone isn't offered a job because they're poor, not because they're black? (Or, more likely, some confluence of the two). You seem quite sure. In this (admittedly decade old) poll, "almost one in three blacks and Asians [say] they believe racism has cost them the chance of a job ... On employment, 40% of blacks and 34% of Asians said they have come across racism at work." Further, "of all those questioned, 51% said they felt Britain is a racist society. That view was shared by 52% of whites and 53% of blacks. Among Asian respondents, 41% said they believe Britain is racist compared with 45% who rejected the suggestion." Closer to the present is this poll, where "One in three Brits admits they are racist. A third admitted regularly making comments or being involved in discussions which could be considered racist and more than one in ten admitted they had been accused of being a racist by someone close to them. Furthermore, almost 40 per cent confessed to using the phrase ‘I’m not a racist, but …’ when discussing race issues facing Britain today ... The study also found one in five accept the fact that people around them make disparaging remarks about different ethnic groups – and are not bothered by it." First thesis: Racism exists in Britain. I'm very confident in this point.
Counterpoint: The article on the first, 2002 poll says "But it also suggests widespread acceptance of mixed-race relationships.
Half of all those asked say they would marry or have a relationship with someone from another race.
And when asked how they would feel if their child married someone from another race, most said the most important thing would be that they had found a loving partner."
I don't know if I agree that 50% of people saying they'd have an interracial relationship is really 'widespread' acceptance, for several reasons - that's fully half the people who wouldn't, although their opinions on it aren't made clear. Furthermore, Strom Thurmond is all you need to look at to see that someone can be in an interracial relationship, can love their mixed-race daughter, and still be a virulent racist opposed to "race mixing". And we're not just talking about the average man on the Clapham omnibus or his son, we're talking about the King of England, and through him the entire future line of the British Monarchy, which people feel reflect them and their country, some still in a very old school way. There's a lot of emotions bound up there. And please no one say that the Windsors aren't British, no one thinks of them as German now, and dealing with white Europeans brings in totally different feelings than with black people.
So, second thesis: The non-insignificant portion of people who have vague feelings of opposition to That Sort of Thing, even if not applied to themselves, would be riled by an interracial royal couple and a future black monarch. A larger number would be at least somewhat uncomfortable. This is in addition to the people who are consciously, openly or not, against it, and (including) your far-right voters, what have you. I'm less sure of this thesis, because it's a counterfactual and there's no way to prove either side right, but I still believe I'm correct.
I'm sorry if you consider the fact that racism exists in Britain insulting, although I don't really understand why you would feel that way. Racism exists basically everywhere, and surely exists in my nation and state. I don't feel someone pointing that out is insulting me, unless they apply it to everyone living there. If that's what you felt I was doing, saying that every person in Britain is a crypto-racist, then firstly: I was not, though I now see how it might be construed that way and secondly: I apologize if you were offended by that. I did not appreciate your lack of politeness, though.
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Inuit is the correct term in Canada, while apparently the incorrect one in the US.
Either way, First Nations or Metis is much more likely than Inuit, though I think most Metis are Catholic, so that probably isn't happening.
Inuit is the correct term in Canada, while apparently the incorrect one in the US.
Either way, First Nations or Metis is much more likely than Inuit, though I think most Metis are Catholic, so that probably isn't happening.
The Inuit thing is a weird thing. It's sort of like Sioux, there's a divide on those who feel a more proper term should be used, but others who don't care and go by what they've always gone by. It's similar to Indian vs. Native American. Native American looks good on paper, but is awkward for everyday use.
And there's a large chunk of Protestant Metis. The Catholics are largely those who mixed with the French, and the others had Scottish and English forefathers. Now a days they see themselves as one Metis nation, having more in common than not, and to increase their political/numerical impact.
Wow. Had a feeling this was the case, but since my lens is colored by American and Canadian race relations, I didn't want to make assumptions. IMO Canada is much better than the US in many cases in overcoming racism, but you'd be naive fool to suggest it's all hunky-dory up there. I figured the same held true for Britain.
Number one, don't type that much, you're trying to end the discussion, and someone got banned for that.
Number two, I see your point, and I do acknowledge that racism exists right now in Britain. However, think about this, racism is taboo in Britain, and TBH, it can be constructed as an attack upon the Monarchy if you criticize the newest addition to the Royal Family. Plus, you look racist if you do. So, I think people would at least begrudingly accept it, and anyway, people are rapidly becoming more progressive in their views. One of your polls are a decade ago, and the other one had 1/3, albeit a large number, its outnumbered by the tolerant ones.
We, as a society, has moved on from those deeply racist, xenophobic, days of old, and are becoming more tolerant in our views.
After all, we can't get rid of class in Britain, however we can overcome the race factor. Most people would accept it and of course the media hype would happen.