WI: William of Orange died in 1690?

She wasn't interested in being sole ruler, so she might want to marry and then hand control over to her husband. But it's going to be difficult for Parliament to agree on a husband, and they almost certainly won't agree to him having any powers.
 
Well exactly, which is the fascinating aspect. There would also be (presumably) no deposing of her father so I would presume no Bill of Rights
 
Well exactly, which is the fascinating aspect. There would also be (presumably) no deposing of her father so I would presume no Bill of Rights
Wasn't the Bill of Rights passed in 1689 the year earlier?
William as full King rather than consort was pretty much in return for his support of Parliament, lacking that could mean greater chance of a Jacobite restoration.
 
Wasn't the Bill of Rights passed in 1689 the year earlier?
William as full King rather than consort was pretty much in return for his support of Parliament, lacking that could mean greater chance of a Jacobite restoration.

Mainly because they needed the Dutch army to keep order, James having disbanded his. By 1690 there was a British army up and running again, so no such problem.
 
I don't think it changes much really. Even if Mary remarries, IIRC she was rendered infertile by a pregnancy/illness in 1679/80. AFAIK the only place she really exercised power was in the CoE since they'd just gotten rid of a papist king and weren't in favour of a Calvinist one being in control. If she still dies on schedule, then Anne has a longer reign. Of course, they don't know Mary's barren (I think) so they'll still go about finding her some acceptable mild-mannered Germanic princeling as consort

However, the changes in the Netherlands could make for interesting times. @Janprimus @pompejus etc might know more.
 
I don't think it changes much really. Even if Mary remarries, IIRC she was rendered infertile by a pregnancy/illness in 1679/80. AFAIK the only place she really exercised power was in the CoE since they'd just gotten rid of a papist king and weren't in favour of a Calvinist one being in control. If she still dies on schedule, then Anne has a longer reign. Of course, they don't know Mary's barren (I think) so they'll still go about finding her some acceptable mild-mannered Germanic princeling as consort

However, the changes in the Netherlands could make for interesting times. @Janprimus @pompejus etc might know more.
What if she wasn't rendered infertile by it? Or if it was only to do with William himself?
 
However, the changes in the Netherlands could make for interesting times. @Janprimus @pompejus etc might know more.
The Dutch republic did suffer from the fact that a lot of Dutch people moved with William III to England. If William III only rules for 2 years, that effect will be somewhat lessened,I think. There probably will be a minor power struggle between the Orangists and the republicans. Not sure who would win, but I think the Republicans might win this time too. Not sure though.It could go both ways.

I assume that the Dutch and English will remain allies for awhile, like OTL, but it kind of depends on the English and if they keep opposing France. I think they will.

In the end, if France can be kept away, like OTL, I think the Dutch epublic might be slightly better of than OTL, but in the end it depends on what England and France do.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
The Dutch republic did suffer from the fact that a lot of Dutch people moved with William III to England. If William III only rules for 2 years, that effect will be somewhat lessened,I think. There probably will be a minor power struggle between the Orangists and the republicans. Not sure who would win, but I think the Republicans might win this time too. Not sure though.It could go both ways.

The biggest problem for the Orange-faction is that they don't really have a champion. Which was the biggest reason for the second Stadholderless-period. ATL Johan Willem Frisk is only three years old. This could very well mean the end for the Orangists.
 
This could very well mean the end for the Orangists.
This was what I was thinking too, but I was also thinking about 1672, when people were clamoring for the stadholder to return. As long as there is still a stadholder in the north, I don't think the role of the orangists is completely over.
 
The biggest problem for the Orange-faction is that they don't really have a champion. Which was the biggest reason for the second Stadholderless-period. ATL Johan Willem Frisk is only three years old. This could very well mean the end for the Orangists.

He's only 3-years old, but IIRC his dad was still around and kicking - so why couldn't he make a play for it? Not to mention there might still be a Hohenzollern younger son with a claim to the stadtholderate available (the Great Elector was trying to get William III to name his son Ludwig as heir in the event of William III being childless).

What if she wasn't rendered infertile by it? Or if it was only to do with William himself?

To let Mary not be rendered infertile by it requires a much earlier POD than 1690, and while the TL An Orange Succession sorta does that with a pretty strong butterfly net to even sees a OTL-Glorious Revolution play out.

William's fertility in itself is rather iffy. I mean, one only needs to look at his long-term mistress, Elizabeth "Squinting Betty" Villiers. The woman has no kids by Bill, then she marries her husband after the king sets her aside, and pops out three kids in succession. I've seen one characterization of it (I vaguely suspect this might have been from Liselotte, duchesse d'Orléans' pen, since I can't remember where I read it), where the William-Mary marriage is described as a gay man wedding a lesbian woman. Now, I'm not sure what Bill's reason was why he struggled to have kids (for instance, with Sigmund Augustus of Poland we know it was because of a venereal disease he picked up as a teenager from one of his mom's ladies in waiting), the other Nassaus of his generation (Maurits' bastard grandsons and his own cousins, bastard or otherwise) did fairly well in the kids' stakes. I'm guessing marriage to a first cousin didn't help him - but even his first cousin, Friedrich I of Prussia married a first cousin and at least got one (female) child (who he then proceded to marry to her first cousin. No offense but thanks god she had no kids, since they probably would've been married back into the Hohenzollerns and we'd end up with German Protestant equivalent of the Spanish Habsburgs)
 
He's only 3-years old, but IIRC his dad was still around and kicking - so why couldn't he make a play for it? Not to mention there might still be a Hohenzollern younger son with a claim to the stadtholderate available (the Great Elector was trying to get William III to name his son Ludwig as heir in the event of William III being childless).
The Hohenzollers are irrelevant. The stadholdership was not hereditary (at least at the time of William III). That is why before and after William III there wasa stadholderless period and why the Frisian stadholders became the stadholder general instead of the more closely related Hohenzollers. Simply put the Dutch will not accept a Hohenzoller as stadholder, except if they were truly Dutch, thus raised by the Dutch. Simply put, I think the Dutch would prefer no stadholder over a foreign stadholder, including a significant part of the Orangists.
 
The Hohenzollers are irrelevant. The stadholdership was not hereditary (at least at the time of William III). That is why before and after William III there wasa stadholderless period and why the Frisian stadholders became the stadholder general instead of the more closely related Hohenzollers. Simply put the Dutch will not accept a Hohenzoller as stadholder, except if they were truly Dutch, thus raised by the Dutch. Simply put, I think the Dutch would prefer no stadholder over a foreign stadholder, including a significant part of the Orangists.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - from what I can make out it wasn't as heir to the stadholderate but rather to the Nassau-Orange lands that weren't covered by Salic Law. However there was also treaty signed in the 18th century between the Nassau-Dietzes and Friedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia (who's eldest two sons who died in infancy are listed in some sources as having been titled "prince of Orange"), concerning the inheritance.
 
Sorry if I wasn't clear - from what I can make out it wasn't as heir to the stadholderate but rather to the Nassau-Orange lands that weren't covered by Salic Law. However there was also treaty signed in the 18th century between the Nassau-Dietzes and Friedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia (who's eldest two sons who died in infancy are listed in some sources as having been titled "prince of Orange"), concerning the inheritance.

IOTL William (Willem) the Silent (Nassau-Dillenburg) inherited the Principality of Orange and the other lands of the Nassau-Breda branch from his cousin René of Chalon (Nassau-Breda), since René made him his heir in his will. Now whereas Frederick-Henry (Frederik-Hendrik) did made promises to the Hohenzollern, William (Willem) III had a different will. This, including involvement of Louis XIV, which seized the actual principality, eventually lead to a division of the inheritance. ITTL I can see something similar happening, so yes I can see the Hohenzollerns making a move for the non-Salic Nassau lands, the counties of Lingen and Moers (which will diminish the Dutch sphere of influence), though the county of Lingen was granted to Maurits (Maurice/Moritz) of Orange by the Estates of Overijssel.

As for the Dutch Republic, this will be serious blow for the Orangists, which had been in a good position, ever since Willem III had turned around the Rampjaar (Disaster Year) of 1672. Luckily though less people will move to the British Isles and it mean the Dutch Republic will be somewhat less depending on Britain, which IOTL ended selling them short (I'm sorry, but those peace treaties aren't exactly remembered as good results over here). It would not mean, the Dutch Republic won't decline, it will, since well, the Republic (but it goes back to the Burgundian predecessor) had been punching above its' weight for quite a while.
While England and later Great Britain was trade rival, the real problem for the Republic was a dominant power on the continent, having to fight off Louis XIV, was a distraction from maritime exploits.
 
Last edited:
Top