WI: William IV's legitimate children survive

While William IV of the UK had several illegitimate children with his mistress Dorothea Jordan, none of his legitimate children with Queen Adelaide survived childhood.

The question is how would history have been affected if four of theses children survived. There would be not Victoria and Albert (and if Victoria existed she'd be a minor princess) and as such her many descendants would not exist. What would have been probable matches for the Clarence kids and how might having a born and bread Hanoverian on the throne, as well as the continuing personal union, have impacted the monarchy's position in the UK.

For reference William and Adelaide's kids are:
  1. Princess Charlotte (March 1819)
  2. stillborn child (Sept. 1819)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (Dec. 1820)
  4. IOTL Stillborn twin boys who, for this thread, can be called the future Prince of Wales and Duke of York (April 1822)
(I kept the child between Charlotte and Elizabeth stillborn as, based on dates, the kid was likely extremely premature due to being born less than 6 months after Charlotte if we assume Adelaide got pregnant the day after Charlotte's birth, which she didn't. If you'd like that stillborn child to live for added butterflies, you can push back their DOB by a few months)
 

Toraach

Banned
I don't think it changes much. Except that in a case of a survived son, there won't be at the moment a sepration of the thrones of Hanover and Great Britain. It has a big consequence, for prussian atempts to unite Germany. And british involvement against Prussia, because the King's prestige not to lost his hereditary domain. But for British internal politics and colonial expansion it doesn't change anything. The evolution of the parliamentary system and a lack of real royal power was to much developed in that moment, so OTL Victoria or ATL Charlotte/Elizabeth or William, George, Edward, Henry, Charles etc. it doesn't matter. Still the real power had the parliament and the prime minister.
 
Actually I'd say it changes a hell of a lot. Victoria was entirely uneducated when she came to the throne and easily fell under Melbourne's spell. She basically learned that the Monarch's role was to only act with her minister's suggestions/advice and had little power to say no, a complete lie legally. Then Victoria and Albert really didn't put much effort into fighting for domestic influence and instead focused on foreign affairs, which put them against Palmerston. Big guess who won that fight. It wasn't until the 1860s and 1870s that Victoria really tried to assert herself to very mixed results. A well-educated monarch in 1837 would be in a much better position to retain the continued use of the royal prerogative without the constant need of the ministers. I'd say the best way to continue this power would be either with the Reform Crisis (get a Tory reform that disenfranchised the rotten boroughs and transfers their votes to the industrial towns) or in 1834, when William IV appointed a PM contrary to the will of Parliament (have Peel pull a Pitt the Younger and refuse to resign in the votes of no confidence until the country supports the PM).

Even then, a monarch could still retain the use of the prerogative if they try. Establish the right to dismiss individual ministers, ignore votes of no confidence if they retain the Crown's backing, ex ex. I think it would be possible to keep the Crown at George III level influence for a good while if the monarch is skilled enough.
 
King William IV of United Kingdom (1765-1837) m. 1818, Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1792-1849)
  1. Princess Charlotte (27 March 1819-) m. 1837, William III of the Netherlands (1817-1890)
  2. Princess Adelaide (5 December 1819[1]-) m. 1839, Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818-1893)
    1. Louise (9 December 1839-) m. 1953 Leopold II of Belgium (1835-1909)
    2. Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1841)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (10 December 1820) m. 1840, Christian IX of Denmark (1818-1903)
  4. William V (8 April 1822) m. 1842, Auguste Sophie Friederike (1823-1899)
    1. George V (3 June 1843-14 May 1912) m. 1861, Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna of Russia (30 August 1842 – 10 July 1919)
      1. William VI (1863-)
    2. Augusta, Princess Royal (1 December 1844-20 November 1925)
    3. William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (24 December 1845-18 March 1913)
    4. Princess Adelade (26 November 1847-13 October 1928)
    5. Princess Victoria (29 September 1853-26 February 1933)
    6. Edward, Duke of Kent (27 October 1858-14 January 1939)
  5. Prince George, Duke of York (8 April 1822-1846) m. 1840, Princess Augusta of Cambridge (19 July 1822-5 December 1919)
    1. William, Duke of Kent (22 July 1845 – 11 June 1914) m. Helena of Kent (25 May 1846–9 June 1923)
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (2 November 1767–23 January 1820) m. 1818 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (17 August 1786–16 March 1861)
  1. Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent and Strathearn (24 May 1819-22 January 1901) m. 1840, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (26 August 1819–14 December 1897)
[1] I pushed back the date of birth for this daughter by two months

Working Progress
 
King William IV of United Kingdom (1765-1837) m. 1818, Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1792-1849)
  1. Princess Charlotte (27 March 1819-) m. 1837, William III of the Netherlands (1817-1890)
  2. Princess Adelaide (5 December 1819[1]-) m. 1839, Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818-1893)
    1. Louise (9 December 1839-) m. 1953 Leopold II of Belgium (1835-1909)
    2. Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1841)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (10 December 1820) m. 1840, Christian IX of Denmark (1818-1903)
  4. William V (8 April 1822) m. 1842, Auguste Sophie Friederike (1823-1899)
    1. George V (3 June 1843-14 May 1912) m. 1861, Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna of Russia (30 August 1842 – 10 July 1919)
      1. William VI (1863-)
    2. Augusta, Princess Royal (1 December 1844-20 November 1925)
    3. William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (24 December 1845-18 March 1913)
    4. Princess Adelade (26 November 1847-13 October 1928)
    5. Princess Victoria (29 September 1853-26 February 1933)
    6. Edward, Duke of Kent (27 October 1858-14 January 1939)
  5. Prince George, Duke of York (8 April 1822-1846) m. 1840, Princess Augusta of Cambridge (19 July 1822-5 December 1919)
    1. William, Duke of Kent (22 July 1845 – 11 June 1914) m. Helena of Kent (25 May 1846–9 June 1923)
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (2 November 1767–23 January 1820) m. 1818 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (17 August 1786–16 March 1861)
  1. Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent and Strathearn (24 May 1819-22 January 1901) m. 1840, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (26 August 1819–14 December 1897)
[1] I pushed back the date of birth for this daughter by two months

Working Progress

Would Victoria still marry Bertie here, if she's not the Queen?
 

Toraach

Banned
King William IV of United Kingdom (1765-1837) m. 1818, Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1792-1849)
  1. Princess Charlotte (27 March 1819-) m. 1837, William III of the Netherlands (1817-1890)
  2. Princess Adelaide (5 December 1819[1]-) m. 1839, Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818-1893)
    1. Louise (9 December 1839-) m. 1953 Leopold II of Belgium (1835-1909)
    2. Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1841)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (10 December 1820) m. 1840, Christian IX of Denmark (1818-1903)
  4. William V (8 April 1822) m. 1842, Auguste Sophie Friederike (1823-1899)
    1. George V (3 June 1843-14 May 1912) m. 1861, Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna of Russia (30 August 1842 – 10 July 1919)
      1. William VI (1863-)
    2. Augusta, Princess Royal (1 December 1844-20 November 1925)
    3. William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (24 December 1845-18 March 1913)
    4. Princess Adelade (26 November 1847-13 October 1928)
    5. Princess Victoria (29 September 1853-26 February 1933)
    6. Edward, Duke of Kent (27 October 1858-14 January 1939)
  5. Prince George, Duke of York (8 April 1822-1846) m. 1840, Princess Augusta of Cambridge (19 July 1822-5 December 1919)
    1. William, Duke of Kent (22 July 1845 – 11 June 1914) m. Helena of Kent (25 May 1846–9 June 1923)
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (2 November 1767–23 January 1820) m. 1818 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (17 August 1786–16 March 1861)
  1. Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent and Strathearn (24 May 1819-22 January 1901) m. 1840, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (26 August 1819–14 December 1897)
[1] I pushed back the date of birth for this daughter by two months

Working Progress
It is very interesting.

I see that Ernest of SCG has kids with princess Adelaide, so I pressume he didn't contact a veneric dissease in this ATL.
 
Would Victoria still marry Bertie here, if she's not the Queen?
That I don't know. Personally I think Princess Adelaide (Dec 1819 baby) would probably be offered to someone higher up than Ernest, maybe Alexander II of Russia (who was proposed for Victoria IOTL).

I could see Victoria being Ernest's bride here as she'll be low on the royal totem pole (due to being the King's niece/cousin) and Uncle Leopold might want to use Albert as part of the Coburg stud farm and have him chase a throne (either by marrying in or being proposed for a new throne).

Heck, its completely possible ITTL that the Duchess of Kent decides to keep Victoria as a spinster companion to fulfill her emotional needs (similar to the relationship between Queen Alexandra and Princess Victoria IOTL or what OTL Queen Vic tried to do with Princess Beatrice). I could see memoirs of the Clarence kids being published lamenting the fate of "poor cousin Vicky" being stuck with her mother until she dies, at which point her best chance to marry is with a royal who has kids and is looking for a stepmom which, given Victoria's mothering skills IOTL, is destined to end poorly for all involved.
 
That I don't know. Personally I think Princess Adelaide (Dec 1819 baby) would probably be offered to someone higher up than Ernest, maybe Alexander II of Russia (who was proposed for Victoria IOTL).

I could see Victoria being Ernest's bride here as she'll be low on the royal totem pole (due to being the King's niece/cousin) and Uncle Leopold might want to use Albert as part of the Coburg stud farm and have him chase a throne (either by marrying in or being proposed for a new throne).

Heck, its completely possible ITTL that the Duchess of Kent decides to keep Victoria as a spinster companion to fulfill her emotional needs (similar to the relationship between Queen Alexandra and Princess Victoria IOTL or what OTL Queen Vic tried to do with Princess Beatrice). I could see memoirs of the Clarence kids being published lamenting the fate of "poor cousin Vicky" being stuck with her mother until she dies, at which point her best chance to marry is with a royal who has kids and is looking for a stepmom which, given Victoria's mothering skills IOTL, is destined to end poorly for all involved.

Hmm this is very true, though if things come down to it, we could see Will's heir married to Vicky, at a push. Or maybe to a needed alliance?
 
Would Victoria still marry Bertie here, if she's not the Queen?
I'd like to think that the two of them would still get together for their loving relationship.

It is very interesting.

I see that Ernest of SCG has kids with princess Adelaide, so I pressume he didn't contact a veneric dissease in this ATL.
Ernest fathered at least three illegitimate children in later years. I believe that he is able to have at least two children in TTL

That I don't know. Personally I think Princess Adelaide (Dec 1819 baby) would probably be offered to someone higher up than Ernest, maybe Alexander II of Russia (who was proposed for Victoria IOTL).

I could see Victoria being Ernest's bride here as she'll be low on the royal totem pole (due to being the King's niece/cousin) and Uncle Leopold might want to use Albert as part of the Coburg stud farm and have him chase a throne (either by marrying in or being proposed for a new throne).

Heck, its completely possible ITTL that the Duchess of Kent decides to keep Victoria as a spinster companion to fulfill her emotional needs (similar to the relationship between Queen Alexandra and Princess Victoria IOTL or what OTL Queen Vic tried to do with Princess Beatrice). I could see memoirs of the Clarence kids being published lamenting the fate of "poor cousin Vicky" being stuck with her mother until she dies, at which point her best chance to marry is with a royal who has kids and is looking for a stepmom which, given Victoria's mothering skills IOTL, is destined to end poorly for all involved.
Not a big fan of marrying the British with the Russians, I what about swapping the first and third marriages.
I like to think that Alexandra is married off by plans of William or her cousin.
 
King William IV of United Kingdom (1765-1837) m. 1818, Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1792-1849)
  1. Princess Charlotte (27 March 1819-) m. 1837, William III of the Netherlands (1817-1890)
    1. William IV (1840–1923)
    2. Frederick (1843–1932)
    3. Henry (1851–1939)
    4. Wilhelmina (1880–1962)
  2. Princess Adelaide (5 December 1819[1]-) m. 1839, Christian IX of Denmark (1818-1903)
    1. Christian X of Denmark (30 December 1839-2 April 1911)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (10 December 1820) m. 1840, Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818-1893)
    1. Louise (9 December 1839-) m. 1953 Leopold II of Belgium (1835-1909)
    2. Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1841)
  4. William V (8 April 1822) m. 1842, Auguste Sophie Friederike (1823-1899)
    1. George V (3 June 1843-14 May 1912) m. 1861, Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna of Russia (30 August 1842 – 10 July 1919)
      1. William VI (1863-)
        1. William VI (1889–1968)
        2. Alexandria (1890–1977)
        3. Elizabeth (1892–1990)
        4. George (1894–1967)
        5. Adelaide (1902–1966)
    2. Augusta, Princess Royal (1 December 1844-20 November 1925)
    3. William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (24 December 1845-18 March 1913)
    4. Princess Adelaide (26 November 1847-13 October 1928)
    5. Princess Victoria (29 September 1853-26 February 1933)
    6. Edward, Duke of Kent (27 October 1858-14 January 1939)
  5. Prince George, Duke of York (8 April 1822-1846) m. 1840, Princess Augusta of Cambridge (19 July 1822-5 December 1919)
    1. William, Duke of Kent (22 July 1845 – 11 June 1914) m. Helena of Kent (25 May 1846–9 June 1923)
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (2 November 1767–23 January 1820) m. 1818 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (17 August 1786–16 March 1861)
  1. Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent and Strathearn (24 May 1819-22 January 1901) m. 1840, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (26 August 1819–14 December 1897)
[1] I pushed back the date of birth for this daughter by two months

Working Progress[/QUOTE]
 
King William IV of United Kingdom (1765-1837) m. 1818, Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1792-1849)
  1. Princess Charlotte (27 March 1819-) m. 1837, William III of the Netherlands (1817-1890)
    1. William IV (1840–1923)
    2. Frederick (1843–1932)
    3. Henry (1851–1939)
    4. Wilhelmina (1880–1962)
  2. Princess Adelaide (5 December 1819[1]-) m. 1839, Christian IX of Denmark (1818-1903)
    1. Christian X of Denmark (30 December 1839-2 April 1911)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (10 December 1820) m. 1840, Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818-1893)
    1. Louise (9 December 1839-) m. 1953 Leopold II of Belgium (1835-1909)
    2. Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1841)
  4. William V (8 April 1822) m. 1842, Auguste Sophie Friederike (1823-1899)
    1. George V (3 June 1843-14 May 1912) m. 1861, Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna of Russia (30 August 1842 – 10 July 1919)
      1. William VI (1863-)
        1. William VI (1889–1968)
        2. Alexandria (1890–1977)
        3. Elizabeth (1892–1990)
        4. George (1894–1967)
        5. Adelaide (1902–1966)
    2. Augusta, Princess Royal (1 December 1844-20 November 1925)
    3. William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (24 December 1845-18 March 1913)
    4. Princess Adelaide (26 November 1847-13 October 1928)
    5. Princess Victoria (29 September 1853-26 February 1933)
    6. Edward, Duke of Kent (27 October 1858-14 January 1939)
  5. Prince George, Duke of York (8 April 1822-1846) m. 1840, Princess Augusta of Cambridge (19 July 1822-5 December 1919)
    1. William, Duke of Kent (22 July 1845 – 11 June 1914) m. Helena of Kent (25 May 1846–9 June 1923)
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (2 November 1767–23 January 1820) m. 1818 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (17 August 1786–16 March 1861)
  1. Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent and Strathearn (24 May 1819-22 January 1901) m. 1840, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (26 August 1819–14 December 1897)
[1] I pushed back the date of birth for this daughter by two months

Working Progress
[/QUOTE]

I must admit, I prefer the idea of Charlotte marrying Willem III to her marrying Ernst II of Coburg. Although it is a pity that Christian IX doesn't become the father-in-law of Europe here. However, there seem to be a slew of cousin marriages - the duke of York to his Cambridge cousin, Victoria to Albert, and then the duke of Kent to who I can only assume is Albert and Victoria's daughter Helene (who for some weird reason seems to be entitled "of Kent") - which would seem to be a waste of political capital.

William IV disliked the Coburgs - he regarded Leopold I as "as slippery as a barrelful of eels", and his sister-in-law as not much better. It seems unlikely that he would waste his daughter on the duke of a comparitively minor dukedom in Germany. Particularly given Ernst I's reputation for ill-treatment of his first wife. Victoria might be offered elsewhere, she's less important so she might end up married to Alexander II of Russia (I think he might be sidetracked by the princess of Hesse like he was for another Alexandrine (of Baden), though) or to someone else who was proposed for her (Christian IX maybe? ICR if they'd already signed the waiver that made him become king of Denmark by 1837, but considering that it was mainly signed the way it was because of who he was married to, I'm not sure he'd be married to a British princess and still become king of Denmark?). Hell, if William wants to make nice with the July monarchy he might even offer her for one of Louis Philippe's sons that married her Kohary cousin OTL (I've never read what William's relationship with the July Monarchy was, so I have no idea if this is plausible or not).
 
King William IV of United Kingdom (1765-1837) m. 1818, Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1792-1849)
  1. Princess Charlotte (27 March 1819-) m. 1837, William III of the Netherlands (1817-1890)
    1. William IV (1840–1923)
    2. Frederick (1843–1932)
    3. Henry (1851–1939)
    4. Wilhelmina (1880–1962)
  2. Princess Adelaide (5 December 1819[1]-) m. 1839, Christian IX of Denmark (1818-1903)
    1. Christian X of Denmark (30 December 1839-2 April 1911)
  3. Princess Elizabeth (10 December 1820) m. 1840, Tsar Alexander II (29 April 1818 – 13 March 1881)
  4. William V (8 April 1822) m. 1842, Auguste Sophie Friederike (1823-1899)
    1. George V (3 June 1843-14 May 1912) m. 1861, Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna of Russia (30 August 1842 – 10 July 1919)
      1. William VI (1863-)
        1. William VI (1889–1968)
        2. Alexandria (1890–1977)
        3. Elizabeth (1892–1990)
        4. George (1894–1967)
        5. Adelaide (1902–1966)
    2. Augusta, Princess Royal (1 December 1844-20 November 1925)
    3. William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (24 December 1845-18 March 1913)
    4. Princess Adelaide (26 November 1847-13 October 1928)
    5. Princess Victoria (29 September 1853-26 February 1933)
    6. Edward, Duke of Kent (27 October 1858-14 January 1939)
  5. Prince George, Duke of York (8 April 1822-1846) m. 1840, Sophie of Württemberg (17 June 1818–3 June 1877)
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (2 November 1767–23 January 1820) m. 1818 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (17 August 1786–16 March 1861)
  1. Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent and Strathearn (24 May 1819-22 January 1901) m. 1840, Prince Ferdinand Philippe of Orléans (3 September 1810 – 13 July 1842)
[1] I pushed back the date of birth for this daughter by two months

Working Progress

I must admit, I prefer the idea of Charlotte marrying Willem III to her marrying Ernst II of Coburg. Although it is a pity that Christian IX doesn't become the father-in-law of Europe here. However, there seem to be a slew of cousin marriages - the duke of York to his Cambridge cousin, Victoria to Albert, and then the duke of Kent to who I can only assume is Albert and Victoria's daughter Helene (who for some weird reason seems to be entitled "of Kent") - which would seem to be a waste of political capital.

William IV disliked the Coburgs - he regarded Leopold I as "as slippery as a barrelful of eels", and his sister-in-law as not much better. It seems unlikely that he would waste his daughter on the duke of a comparitively minor dukedom in Germany. Particularly given Ernst I's reputation for ill-treatment of his first wife. Victoria might be offered elsewhere, she's less important so she might end up married to Alexander II of Russia (I think he might be sidetracked by the princess of Hesse like he was for another Alexandrine (of Baden), though) or to someone else who was proposed for her (Christian IX maybe? ICR if they'd already signed the waiver that made him become king of Denmark by 1837, but considering that it was mainly signed the way it was because of who he was married to, I'm not sure he'd be married to a British princess and still become king of Denmark?). Hell, if William wants to make nice with the July monarchy he might even offer her for one of Louis Philippe's sons that married her Kohary cousin OTL (I've never read what William's relationship with the July Monarchy was, so I have no idea if this is plausible or not).[/QUOTE]
So get rid of the Coburges and add the Württemberg Princess, Russian Tsar and French Prince.

Is William IV now grandfather of Europe?
 
Christian IX might not get the Danish throne in that scenario - until he was acknowledged as heir he was a low ranking Prince on the totem pole and not a good catch (didn't stop him trying though) - one of the main justification's for being named heir to the throne was his marriage to Louise of Hesse Kassel (who had a much stronger claim)
Alexander II of Russia fell in love with his OTL wife - and the Romanov's preferred brides from minor states that had less political consequences than a marriage with a great power - and Anglo-Russian relations were on a slow slide through the 30s and 40s
The Dutch marriage is likely and probably will be hugely popular in both countries
I agree I think a match with the Coburg's is unlikely in this scenario.

On names - they will be dictated by the Prince Regent and later King George IV - he interferred with the names of all his siblings children - largely due to his own prejudices - that's why Queen Victoria ended up as Alexandrina Victoria. All the grandsons were named George (Cumberland and Cambridge) so I would stick with that for the first born son (Adelaide's father was also George) and use William for the second - though godparents often dictated the name as well.

1) Princess Charlotte of Clarence b1819 m 1838 (arranged before her father's death but delayed for mourning) William Prince of Orange later William III of The Netherlands.
2) Stillborn daughter (i would keep this stillbirth given the narrow gap of time - had Charlotte lived then this pregnancy might not happen at all)
3) Princess Elizabeth of Clarence b1820
4) Prince George of Clarence b1822 Prince of Wales 1830 King George V in 1837
5) Prince William of Clarence b1822 Duke of York 1830

Importantly Queen Adelaide will act as Regent for George V until 1840 in this scenario - and probably influence the marriages for her remaining three unmarried children - I would opt for one of the many available Prussian princesses another strong possibility for George V is Princess Wilhelmina Sophie of The Netherlands.
 
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