WI: William Clito marries Matilda of Boulogne?

Title says all. What if Matilda of Boulogne, either by choice or by kidnapping, ends up married to William Clito, son of Robert Curthose? Personally, I find the most likely way this happens is if Henry Beauclerc dies in 1120 instead of William Adelin. But what do I know?

Any thoughts?
 
Well, assuming the death of Henry I instead of William Adelin—William II is going to have to find another heiress for his cousin, Stephen de Blois.

William Clito's status IOTL was massively increased by the death of William Adelin, because it made him the most senior male heir of the House of Normandy. So, the White Ship surviving the storm does change things, but so long as William Adelin has no children, Clito is a potential successor (ignoring the Empress Matilda—c. 1120 she is still in Germany and married to the Holy Roman Emperor). Nevertheless, Clito makes a very useful pawn for the Capetians to destabilize England and Normandy. It'd also be in France's interests for William Clito to reclaim Normandy in order to detach it from England.

Is Charles the Good still murdered, as IOTL? If so, Louis VI may make Clito the give of Flanders, as happened in history. Along with the possessions of Matilda in Boulogne, it makes a decent domain from which to make a potential claim on Normandy. If things go awry for William Adelin, it would be interesting if Clito reclaimed his birthright in Normandy and somehow ended up on the English throne if Adelin died without heirs—the combined lands of England, Normandy, and Flanders would be very interesting... instead of the Angevin "Empire" of OTL, which sprung out of Anjou and Normandy, we could possibly have a Norman "Empire" based around Normandy and Flanders, perhaps with an ATL heiress to bring Brabant or Holland into their orbit?
 
Well, assuming the death of Henry I instead of William Adelin—William III is going to have to find another heiress for his cousin, Stephen de Blois.

I was thinking of a daughter of Stephen of Penthievre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen,_Count_of_Tréguier).

William Clito's status IOTL was massively increased by the death of William Adelin, because it made him the most senior male heir of the House of Normandy. So, the White Ship surviving the storm does change things, but so long as William Adelin has no children, Clito is a potential successor (ignoring the Empress Matilda—c. 1120 she is still in Germany and married to the Holy Roman Emperor). Nevertheless, Clito makes a very useful pawn for the Capetians to destabilize England and Normandy. It'd also be in France's interests for William Clito to reclaim Normandy in order to detach it from England.

Is Charles the Good still murdered, as IOTL? If so, Louis VI may make Clito the give of Flanders, as happened in history. Along with the possessions of Matilda in Boulogne, it makes a decent domain from which to make a potential claim on Normandy. If things go awry for William Adelin, it would be interesting if Clito reclaimed his birthright in Normandy and somehow ended up on the English throne if Adelin died without heirs—the combined lands of England, Normandy, and Flanders would be very interesting... instead of the Angevin "Empire" of OTL, which sprung out of Anjou and Normandy, we could possibly have a Norman "Empire" based around Normandy and Flanders, perhaps with an ATL heiress to bring Brabant or Holland into their orbit?

Somehow I doubt Louis VI and his sons would want all of this to happen. I could see William Clito with either Normandy or Flanders, but not both. As for England, even if William III loses Normandy and dies without heirs, it would still be in the Capetian's interests to keep England and Normandy seperate again. They may decide to place another candidate on the Norman/Flemish throne, or they might even decide to incorporate them into the royal desmene.
 
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I was thinking of a daughter of Stephen of Penthievre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen,_Count_of_Tréguier).

Yes, this would be a potential match. Any heiress would do. I'm not sure what Adelin's relations were like with Stephen, but I assume they were cordial.

Somehow I doubt Louis VI and his sons would want all of this to happen. I could see William Clito with either Normandy or Flanders, but not both. As for England, even if William III loses Normandy and dies without heirs, it would still be in the Capetian's interests to keep England and Normandy seperate again. They may decide to place another candidate on the Norman/Flemish throne, or they might even decide to incorporate them into the royal desmene.

No, there is no way the Capetians would want any of that to happen. Even Louis VI would blanch at the idea. The idea in my mind is that Louis VI makes the gift of the County of Flanders as OTL. Combined with Matilda's resources in Boulogne, Clito makes a bid to raise up the Norman Barons and succeeds in conquering Normandy from Adelin. Louis VI made plenty of blunders—I could totally see him giving Clito Flanders to stir up trouble with England, only for it to come back to bite him in the ass when Clito ends up in control of Normandy, too.

William Adelin dying without issue is probably improbable. He's young and so his wife Matilda, so I assume they'd have a couple of children. But if for whatever reason Adelin had no issue and died, Clito would be the natural successor that the Norman Barons would look too. Yes, the Capetians would not want to see Normandy and Flanders unite with England, but they'd be pretty helpless to stop it. The France we're talking about is not the France of Louis IX—in the time period we're discussing, the French Royal Demesne was essentially Ile-de-France and it's environs.

Another interesting question: Matilda de Boulogne, aside from holding the County of Boulogne, also happened to have extensive estates (an "honour") in England, too. Assuming she's abducted by Clito, do these estates end up confiscated and given to someone else?
 
Yes, this would be a potential match. Any heiress would do. I'm not sure what Adelin's relations were like with Stephen, but I assume they were cordial.

I'd assume they were cordial considering Stephen never made any moves for the throne before 1135, being the youngest of the Blesevin sons. The thing is, I know IOTL Stephen and Matilda of Boulogne were married in 1125, but I'm not sure if the marriage/betrothal was discussed beforehand.

No, there is no way the Capetians would want any of that to happen. Even Louis VI would blanch at the idea. The idea in my mind is that Louis VI makes the gift of the County of Flanders as OTL. Combined with Matilda's resources in Boulogne, Clito makes a bid to raise up the Norman Barons and succeeds in conquering Normandy from Adelin. Louis VI made plenty of blunders—I could totally see him giving Clito Flanders to stir up trouble with England, only for it to come back to bite him in the ass when Clito ends up in control of Normandy, too.

Clito may still have to worry about dealing with the Flemish barons and Thierry of Alsace before he can turn his attention to Normandy.

William Adelin dying without issue is probably improbable. He's young and so his wife Matilda, so I assume they'd have a couple of children. But if for whatever reason Adelin had no issue and died, Clito would be the natural successor that the Norman Barons would look too. Yes, the Capetians would not want to see Normandy and Flanders unite with England, but they'd be pretty helpless to stop it. The France we're talking about is not the France of Louis IX—in the time period we're discussing, the French Royal Demesne was essentially Ile-de-France and it's environs.

Correct about Clito's position and the early Capetians. Although, would Clito's father Robert have had any stake in this, even though he was already imprisoned by Henry? As for William Adelin, for the purposes of the POD, I also made the assumption that Matilda of Anjou also died, thus leaving William III free to marry Adeliza of Louvain (who was closer to him in age), and thus giving both Williams a chance to procreate ASAP.

Another interesting question: Matilda de Boulogne, aside from holding the County of Boulogne, also happened to have extensive estates (an "honour") in England, too. Assuming she's abducted by Clito, do these estates end up confiscated and given to someone else?

If Adelin had even some of his father's cunning, he could use that to his advantage, especially if the marriage between Clito and Matilda of Boulogne was a kidnapping. Back then, could a marriage have been annulled if one or both of the parties claimed they were unwilling?
 
I'd assume they were cordial considering Stephen never made any moves for the throne before 1135, being the youngest of the Blesevin sons. The thing is, I know IOTL Stephen and Matilda of Boulogne were married in 1125, but I'm not sure if the marriage/betrothal was discussed beforehand.

As far as I know, it was a quick arrangement. There was no longstanding betrothal for Matilda or Stephen to each other or with others.

Clito may still have to worry about dealing with the Flemish barons and Thierry of Alsace before he can turn his attention to Normandy.

This is true. Thierry is a potential claimant to Flanders and Clito wasn't exactly an able administrator of Flanders.

Correct about Clito's position and the early Capetians. Although, would Clito's father Robert have had any stake in this, even though he was already imprisoned by Henry? As for William Adelin, for the purposes of the POD, I also made the assumption that Matilda of Anjou also died, thus leaving William III free to marry Adeliza of Louvain (who was closer to him in age), and thus giving both Williams a chance to procreate ASAP.

I don't think so. Robert wasn't a very good ruler from what we know, and by 1120s he's already in his 70s. Any resistance to Adelin is naturally going to center around Clito, I'd think. Not that Adelin would risk letting Robert Curthose out—I think he'd probably stay imprisoned under Adelin, as it's a pawn to keep Clito from stirring up trouble (though IOTL I don't think he really cared if his father was imprisoned or not). Ah yes—Matilda didn't travel on the White Ship, it's believed she traveled on Henry's. So you're right. With Henry I gone, William III would be a widower as well. His Barons would probably like that, given they didn't much care for Henry's Angevin posturing. He could definitely marry Adeliza of Louvain. Another potential match might be Eleanor of Champagne, Stephen's sisters, There's not many potential marriage matches out there. Urraca of Leon has a daughter, but IOTL she never married and served her brother as a sort of queen/adviser.

If Adelin had even some of his father's cunning, he could use that to his advantage, especially if the marriage between Clito and Matilda of Boulogne was a kidnapping. Back then, could a marriage have been annulled if one or both of the parties claimed they were unwilling?

I don't think so, re: marriages. Abducting an heiress was a pretty common way to force a marriage in this time frame. I guess it would also depend if she was betrothed to another, too. One of Matilda's daughters IOTL, Mary, was a nun who eventually inherited Boulogne. She was abducted by her husband and while there was some minor scandal, the marriage stood.
 
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