WI William 2 of Orange lived longer

One of the oddest outcomes that could come out of this is an Anglo-Dutch Union. IOTL the anti-monarchists were worried that William II would take control of the Netherlands and turn it into a Kingdom, thus they sent an emissary to England with the intention of debating a union.

Now this wasn't a wholly serious consideration, and IOTL when Cromwell eagerly sent diplomats to the Netherlands they batted away his proposals and almost laughed off the very idea - though by said point the threat of William II had gone.

So I suspect we'll see some loose Anglo-Dutch Union if the situation with William II became too desperate and the republican elements were in dire need of assistance.
 
At least there would be a stadtholder in the Dutch Republic, so the provinces which could have had a stronger foreign policy as a result. This could have some influence on the War of the Spanish Succession.
 
You may want to take a look at "The Bloody Man" (see my sig)- while I haven't got that far into this particular aspect, a longer-lived William II is a major part of the TL.

Broadly speaking, I think we'd see continued conflict between Stadtholder and States instead of the unexpected collapse of the Orangists as IOTL. This may be pushed to civil war and this is probably the most likely result, but it's possible that William will blunder into an advantageous compromise more by accident than design. The longer the crisis continues, the worse his monetary situation would get (he was a massively wasteful spender), and if he's not careful he'll bankrupt himself. So any conflict has to be a quick one otherwise he's in serious trouble.

If he's in more or less secure control of the Republic by the mid 1650s, I could see William swallowing his hatred of the Republican regime in England and joining them and the French in a war with Spain, the idea being that England gets the Caribbean and France and Holland partition the Spanish Netherlands. The States would hate this, as they were desperate for peace, but they may not be in any position to argue. Elsewhere, Dutch colonies may see more development; William was keen on that sort of thing. I think the United Provinces looks less economically and culturally dominant in the 1650s-1680s, but they're probably more militarily-focused.
 
I think a living Stadtholder would make more of a difference in the conflicts with the regents/pensionaries. The historical pattern just doesn't lead to the Republicans gaining power when the Stadtholder was alive; if anything, that ended up imprisoning or killing the regents involved (even during William IIs live. So, if any major struggle were to erupt (which isn't unlikely, tensions were already high IOTL), I'd find it likely that William II would 'win' it eventually and then use that victory to expand his power-base. So, that'd mean he'd already have a despotic tendency early on in his reign, and power to go with it. That's not going to be good for him or his kin in the years following that.
 
If he's in more or less secure control of the Republic by the mid 1650s, I could see William swallowing his hatred of the Republican regime in England and joining them and the French in a war with Spain, the idea being that England gets the Caribbean and France and Holland partition the Spanish Netherlands. The States would hate this, as they were desperate for peace, but they may not be in any position to argue. Elsewhere, Dutch colonies may see more development; William was keen on that sort of thing. I think the United Provinces looks less economically and culturally dominant in the 1650s-1680s, but they're probably more militarily-focused.
I think this might actually be beneficial for the country in the long run. A big part of the problems of the later Dutch republic is that the rich merchants who ruled it cared only about themselves and their wealth and hardly about the rest of the country. They did not give a damn about the provinces outside Holland (well maybe a bit about Utrecht) and even less about the generality lands (let alone about possibly strengthen the country by gaining parts outside it, like Antwerp).
 
I think this might actually be beneficial for the country in the long run. A big part of the problems of the later Dutch republic is that the rich merchants who ruled it cared only about themselves and their wealth and hardly about the rest of the country. They did not give a damn about the provinces outside Holland (well maybe a bit about Utrecht) and even less about the generality lands (let alone about possibly strengthen the country by gaining parts outside it, like Antwerp).

So with a stadtholder the country could be stronger: the merchant like OTL and a stronger military and foreign policy because there is a person which is more or less neutral above the provinces.
With acceptable taxes the foreign politics can be supported by a strong military machine.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Johan de Witt (of all people) once said that if he had lived longer Willem II would have been the greatest Stadhouder in the history of the Netherlands. I do think that if there was one Oranje with the motive, means and oppertunity to really take control over the Netherlands for the office of Stadhouder and the family of Oranje-Nassua it was Willem II. He was young, ambitious and even though the attack on Amsterdam failed he got away with most of his demands met. If he has 10 years he will probably control the Republic through patronage and some use of force. After that it's probable that he will try for expansion. It's also interesting to see how he interacts with Cromwellian England as he's married to a Stuart.
 
Thanks for the input so far.

Supposes he consolidate his power base, around 1652? As far as this is possible in a con federation as the United Provinces.
Early Peace with Portugal which opens new opportunitues for war agains Spain?
Would he make an aliance with France, to start a war with Spain, with the aim to partion the Spanish Nehterlands.
Would he make serouis effort to get his brother inlaw Charles back on the trone of England?
Any other expansionist adventures, to connect Lingen with the United Provinces?
 
If the POD is around 1652, the Dutch colonization of the Americas can still be expanded. Maybe a, temporarily, peace with Portugal can be a nice beginning. If France would stay neutral for a while, a small war with Spain is possible.
 
POD?
William II of Orange does not go hunting in October 1650. He is not infected with the small pocks and continue to strenghten his power over the United Provinces. By 1651 there is an alliance with France and William II declares war on Spain.
The land operations are gooing remarkable smooth, with an coupe de main angains Antwerp and Bruges and a succesful siege of Oudenaarde, with a succesfull battle agains a relief Spainish Netherlands relief army. The Dutch army is grinding its way East of the river Scheld to the South.
At sea the war is not succes ful if not called a dissaster. The Dutch war fleet is a confederation fleet commanded by a several Admiralities, who first bicker of who will be in command. The fleets are in bad shape due to ack of funding and most Admiralities sold their war ships after the Peace of Munster.
The WIC, how ever saw an opportunity, since their core buissines was privatering, and after initial setbacks the first Spanisch silver ships could be captured.
The result of this was that the WIC suddenly had some cash flow which was invested in the heavily pressed troops and plantatioons in Brasil and the it was clear that the different Provincial fleet need urgent modernisation of their ships and command struckture.
The slight improved situation in Brasil offered an opportunity to sign a favorable peace with Portugal in 1653, since the Netherlands and Portugal had again a common foe.
 
I believe that strengthening his power is not as easy as you say. I expect that the rich merchant will resist or at least try to resist losing the influence they have. Still I believe they will lose their struggle, but it will probably mean that the United provinces will lose some of its wealth and freedom it oTL had. I suspect that some merchants will flee or at least just leave, probably toward the colonies. Maybe you can strengthen the New Netherlands or New Holland this way.

Besides that, with less wealth (although still a lot of wealth) and more focus on the army, the Netherlands will be less of a naval power as OTL. I expect that the Netherlands will be soundly beaten by the English republic in an Anglo-Dutch war (even more than OTL). With William II, married into the English royal family, I think a confrontation with republican England is almost unavoidable. But I suspect that the relation with the house of Stuart (and possibly France) will be pretty good.
 
An other attemt;

William II of Orange does not go hunting in October 1650. He is not infected with the small pocks and continue to strenghten his power over the United Provinces.
To strenghten his position he centralises the 5 admiralities under one command. Unlike the early attemt by his father he make the experienced navy man, Tromp the Admiral and his second in command Evertsen and de Ruyter from Zeeland. The y wil have the task to rebuilr the neglegted and partly sold fleet to one navy.

William II can convince his unlce Maurtis Naussau Siegen to restore order in Brasil and to come to a favourable peace with Portugal. Maurits agrees under the condision that the colony will not be ruled by the WIC and that he only need to inform the State General.

William keep supporting his brother inlaw Charles I with monney and arms, with mixed succes for Charles, at least enough to keep Cromwell bussy.
SInce William II is firm in power the English will not sent a srong diplomatic envoy to the Hague to discuss a Union. Cromwell uncertain of the strenght of the DUtch fleet and a possible united front of France and the Dutch agains him will not declare war to the DUtch in 1652, for now.

Peace with Portugal is signed in 1653 with remarcable favourable conditions for the DUtch. THe can keep nearly al of the North of Brasil as it was in 1640.

William declares war agains Spain in 1654


Any comments/ ideas?
 
Top