WI: Wilhelmine Germany attempts to go to war with US between 1899-1904

Does this have to necessarily mean a conflict in the Atlantic and East Coast. US is now in the Philippines and the Germans have colonies and some ships in the region.

Of course, it could be in the Pacific as well. Though the other question is the lead time and getting Germany to intervene during the war. Or, perhaps, we mean later on (in 1899/1900), which would mean trying to invade the Philippines while the US is in the middle of fighting a war to pacify the region. The Filipinos wouldn't be seeing Germans as liberators, but conquerors all over again, so German ground troops would be waging a melee a trois in the area.

And, well, as mentioned before, the US did dedicate some fairly significant defenses to the area (two monitors, along with newer ships). The Germans could potentially outnumber the defenders by using greater numbers, and they are closer to a friendly port in the Pacific...

Then again, German occupation of Cuba was to pave way for German economic penetration into Latin America, while Germany acquiring the Philippines doesn't gain much more than depth, as they already have multiple Pacific ports. Less to gain, and still high risk.

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As for the war itself, perhaps the Tripartite Convention breaks down, with Germany wanting control of the entirety of Samoa and to drive the US from the Pacific, or at least Guam and the Philippines. As such, they make their move then. This can come before or after, but the result is likely to tick the US and the UK off, especially if it comes with Germany walking out, as the UK was one of the other members. In that case, Germany has to aggressively try and secure victory over the Americans before the British would decide to intervene or assist the US, either diplomatically or not.



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But as we are discussing a war between the US and Germany, and the majority of the war plans focused on either a German attack on the East Coast or an attack to try and gain Cuba and use it as a base to attack the Eastern seaboard. The plans were to bombard and occupy various US ports in order to force the US to grant Germany concessions, similar to the conduct used in China and elsewhere.
 
If the Germans attack the US Mainland, I agree that they would be driven off, perhaps soon, perhaps later. But they would forever regret it. The United States would learn that the moat isn't adequate without sufficient moat monsters. So--time to build battleships sufficient to defend the coast and then seek out the enemy and kill him.

After the war, the USA is no longer in splendid isolation with a minimal force--it's in splendid isolation while building a frighteningly powerful force sufficient to defend itself against all enemies. A navy sufficient to wreck the German in a rematch and sweep their commerce from the seas will be a real concern for the Royal Navy. The Royal Navy's two power standard is DEAD!

The USN will probably seek to be twice as strong as the German navy--strong enough that there's no possibility of a rematch.

The army won't be powerful, but it won't be as weak as it would have been otherwise.

As Yamamoto is claimed to have said, a sleeping giant has been awakened.
 

kernals12

Banned
If the Germans attack the US Mainland, I agree that they would be driven off, perhaps soon, perhaps later. But they would forever regret it. The United States would learn that the moat isn't adequate without sufficient moat monsters. So--time to build battleships sufficient to defend the coast and then seek out the enemy and kill him.

After the war, the USA is no longer in splendid isolation with a minimal force--it's in splendid isolation while building a frighteningly powerful force sufficient to defend itself against all enemies. A navy sufficient to wreck the German in a rematch and sweep their commerce from the seas will be a real concern for the Royal Navy. The Royal Navy's two power standard is DEAD!

The USN will probably seek to be twice as strong as the German navy--strong enough that there's no possibility of a rematch.

The army won't be powerful, but it won't be as weak as it would have been otherwise.

As Yamamoto is claimed to have said, a sleeping giant has been awakened.
America was not in splendid isolation by the turn of the century. The whole reason the Kaiser had these invasion plans drawn up was because he was worried about America's growing power.
 
America was not in splendid isolation by the turn of the century. The whole reason the Kaiser had these invasion plans drawn up was because he was worried about America's growing power.

Not in splendid isolation, but a significant chunk of isolationists--not wanting to be involved in Europe's affairs.
 

Deleted member 94680

We did broker the peace agreement between Japan and Russia.

And? That wasn’t exactly America flexing its muscles, America was chosen precisely because she was seen as no threat to either player due to her isolation.
 
One thing is the backlash to the very large German american population after a war with America and Germany a decade before WWI. There was so many German clubs etc at that time I believe German was the second or third most spoken language after English.
 

kernals12

Banned
One thing is the backlash to the very large German american population after a war with America and Germany a decade before WWI. There was so many German clubs etc at that time I believe German was the second or third most spoken language after English.
Germans to this day are America's largest ethnic group
 
Essentially what it says in the title. It’s fairly established that the German military under Wilhelm II formulated several war plans for a US invasion to reduce the latter’s colonial/international influence. While the actual feasibility of Germany pulling off an invasion/occupation (or beating the US navy, a critical component of their plan) could seem null, what would’ve happened if the Reich, in an unwise fit of weltpolitik, did in fact attempt an invasion/attack on the US? What would’ve been the outcome of the war, and what implications would it have for the continental balance of powers, the US’ position in world affairs, and the possible development of a world war (if it’s not butterflied away totally or moved up by this development)?
Essentially national suicide by the Germans. Most of those plans were pipe dreams, and an actual invasion of this sort would not only provoke immediate Anglo-French response but also American response, and, uh, you don't want to piss off America in this time period, even if nobody quite understood that yet.

Bavaria carved out, probably by Austria jumping late on the bandwagon. France gets A-L and a time share on the Rhineland if they really get lucky. Russia probably jumps in to grab a slice of the more proportionally Polish bits of eastern Prussia. The German Empire is likely dissolved outright.

The German army is good, but it can't handle its leaders pissing in their own faces like this.
 
Germans to this day are America's largest ethnic group
right but unlike Italian Americans or Irish etc they don't have the social clubs like they once used to. Look at what happened between the end of WWI and the start of WWII many of there clubs shut down especially after the rise of Hitler. Also many people anglicized their names after WWI and for sure after WWII. I'm a heinz 57 with a German last name tho I culturally feel more close to my Irish and Scottish roots
 
I can see the British selling arms to America and sending them from England to Halifax on British ships.
The British ships are neutral and going from neutral port to neutral port.
Germany can't try to interdict the arms flow without bringing the British Empire into the war.
 
One thing is the backlash to the very large German american population after a war with America and Germany a decade before WWI. There was so many German clubs etc at that time I believe German was the second or third most spoken language after English.

That's offset in that most we're political or religious immigrants. My great grandfather immigrated as a draft dodger from the Franco Prussian War. He joined a enclave of fellow Swabian immigrants who wanted nothing to do with a Prussian dominated German nation. Neither did the numerous German speaking Amish and Mennonites have nay affection for imperial German. Neither did those from Austria, Bohemia, Italian Tyrol, and other German speaking provinces. All these Germans had affection for aspects of German culture, but a majority felt no connection to the Prussians or the Kaiser.
 
The US and Germans could open fire on one another in Manilla Bay during the Spanish-American War.

The Second Venezuela crisis is a pretty easy PoD. Considering it was just a few months after the end of the Second Boer War, I can imagine Britain bowing out and not supporting Germany if shooting were to tart.



Considering the geographic advantage the US has (coaling stations, proximity, etc) and that Germany can't throw all of its weight at the US without risking being vulnerable to the French, a protracted fight in which the US builds itself up will likely result in an American West Samoa, Micronesia, and New Guinea. Maybe Japan would see an opportunity to grab Tsingtao and to stick it to Germany after the Tripartite Intervention.
 
If there is an action in the Pacific, what are the odds of a US / Japan alliance against Germany, either during the engagement, or as a repercussion?
 
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