WI: Wilhelm, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg's First Wife Survives

The Wilhelm of the title was father to William the Silent, Stadtholder of the Holland and Zeeland. By his second wife, Juliane of Stolberg-Wernigerode. By his first wife, Walburga van Egmond, Wilhelm only had two daughters.

I'm not sure what killed Walburga OTL, but from Juliane descrended the houses of Nassau-Orange, -Dietz and -Dillenburg, -Vianden and -Siegen. Ergo, should Walburga survive (lets say she lives, but can't have anymore kids), these five branches of the house of Nassau are wiped from the historical map (at least, the OTL editions of them). To make it extra fun, let's make Walburga outlive her husband - so no chance of him remarrying.

How would this impact (particularly Dutch) history? What would happen to the Dutch holdings that the Nassau branch has been building up in the Netherlands?
 
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Vitruvius

Donor
I assume the Nassau territories devolve back to another branch of that family. The territories in the Netherlands, and the Principality of Orange inherited from Rene of Chalon would be passed to some other heir chosen by Rene. I think Rene's nephew Otto IV of Holstein-Schaumburg (younger son of Rene's younger aunt, Maria of Nassau) might be a good bet, as he was briefly in the service of Mary of Austria (the Dowager Queen of Hungary) in the Netherlands. He can just drop his family name and start a new House of Orange in the Netherlands. His line would also have estates in Germany (Schaumburg) just like William the Silent's line did in Nassau. Or you could go with one of Otto's younger brothers, Jobst II or Ernst.

Not sure what happens with Anna of Egmond and her estates as there would be no Nassau prince for her to marry although maybe she could marry Otto as his second wife if his first wife still dies young. I suppose an advantage of Jobst and Ernst is that either is available to marry Anna which could further secure their position their position in the Netherlands.
 
I assume the Nassau territories devolve back to another branch of that family. The territories in the Netherlands, and the Principality of Orange inherited from Rene of Chalon would be passed to some other heir chosen by Rene. I think Rene's nephew Otto IV of Holstein-Schaumburg (younger son of Rene's younger aunt, Maria of Nassau) might be a good bet, as he was briefly in the service of Mary of Austria (the Dowager Queen of Hungary) in the Netherlands. He can just drop his family name and start a new House of Orange in the Netherlands. His line would also have estates in Germany (Schaumburg) just like William the Silent's line did in Nassau. Or you could go with one of Otto's younger brothers, Jobst II or Ernst.

Not sure what happens with Anna of Egmond and her estates as there would be no Nassau prince for her to marry although maybe she could marry Otto as his second wife if his first wife still dies young. I suppose an advantage of Jobst and Ernst is that either is available to marry Anna which could further secure their position their position in the Netherlands.

I had no idea about the Schaumburg line. But it is interesting. Since IIRC the Schaumburgs supported Christian II against Frederik I and Christian III. I just had this runaway idea with a Prince of Holstein-Schaumburg-Orange marrying Kristina of Denmark and their descendants ruling a PU of Denmark-Norway-The Netherlands ;)

The split would most likely be as follows:

Nassau (Dillenburg, Dietz, Siegen, Vianden etc) go back to the senior Nassau branch.

Breda holdings (as well as those acquired through marriage to Johanna van Polen and over the next century) go to Wilhelm's daughters (and their husbands)

Principality of Orange to Otto of Holstein-Schaumburg

Or have I got even this broadstrokes picture wrong?
 
I understand that René could only dispose of the Chalons-Orange inheritance, but might a POD in the early 1530s butterfly his childless death? He apparently was killed in action in 1544, and his wife had given birth to a short-lived daughter just before that, IIRC. And he was a Nassau (senior to Willem the Silent), so would/could he inherit most of the lands in the Netherlands before Wilhelm, Count of Nassau? Or am I getting succession rules muddled?
 
Not sure what happens with Anna of Egmond
Might i make the suggestion of Hendrik van Brederode. The age is right. The standing is about right (the Brederodes were maybe a tiny bit lower, but clearly on the rise in importance), both parents were members of the Order of the Golden Fleece. Some of the territories of Anna link up beautifully with his main territory.

I think Rene's nephew Otto IV of Holstein-Schaumburg
He is Lutheran and too old. Charles V demanded in OTL that William the Silent converted and was educated at his court to insure his loyalty. Because the inheritance of Rene de Chalons was soo rich and would give the title Prince the lutheran parents accepted the demands. Charles the V will make this demand to anyone who claims the inheritance.
William the Silent, Stadtholder of the Netherlands
He was appointed by the King only as Stadtholder of Holland and Zeeland. The other states had different stadholders.
 
He is Lutheran and too old. Charles V demanded in OTL that William the Silent converted and was educated at his court to insure his loyalty. Because the inheritance of Rene de Chalons was soo rich and would give the title Prince the lutheran parents accepted the demands. Charles the V will make this demand to anyone who claims the inheritance.

Would him being a supporter of Christian II not count in his favour with the emperor? Probably not enough to get him to drop his insistence on Catholicism, but maybe make the emperor prefer him to another candidate?
 
Would him being a supporter of Christian II not count in his favour with the emperor? Probably not enough to get him to drop his insistence on Catholicism, but maybe make the emperor prefer him to another candidate?
Rene died in 1544, by that time it was cristal clear that the Christian II side was utterly defeated in Denmark. There would be no political gain here. Maybe Charles V might think to refire the effort, but not at the possibility that this would create a too independent unreliable subject in his own countries. He wants someone he can at least control. William the Silent fulfilled this role very good in OTL. Charles V and William personally got very close and he was showered by honours by the king.
 
Rene died in 1544, by that time it was cristal clear that the Christian II side was utterly defeated in Denmark. There would be no political gain here. Maybe Charles V might think to refire the effort, but not at the possibility that this would create a too independent unreliable subject in his own countries. He wants someone he can at least control. William the Silent fulfilled this role very good in OTL. Charles V and William personally got very close and he was showered by honours by the king.

Fair enough.

And the question I asked about René surviving and possibly having more kids?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
I got the impression that Otto was kind of a lukewarm Lutheran. His father was a Catholic (though he died earlier in 1531) and two of his brothers became Elector Archbishop of Cologne in the 1540-50s, one of whom Adolf, led a crackdown on Protestants. The Reformation was only introduced into Schaumburg after his second marriage in 1559 and he spent the earlier period in Imperial service, fighting the French at St Quentin for example. So I was thinking that with his loyalty to the Emperor pretty clear and with a big inheritance on the line that his religious position would be somewhat flexible ie he would hew close to the Emperor and the Catholic Church rather than going over to the Lutheran Church. Also given that there was some discord over the rule of Schaumburg and attempts to institute primogeniture between Otto and his brothers any one of them might jump at the chance to inherit some of the Nassau Estates. The only Schaumburg brother that seemed to throw in with the Protestants was Jobst, but that was rather late during the Dutch Revolt and I wonder if that was due to his family connections to William the Silent and the other Nassau-Dillenburgs. Though I definitely agree that the succession would require Charles' blessing as Emperor as it's likely to be contested.

I agree that there are basically three groups of territories with different successions. The first would be Orange which would probably be disposed of through the will of Rene as there are no other heirs unless you go back a several generations on his mothers side in which case you might possibly be able to scare up a distant relation among the lesser French nobility. But as that was never considered OTL I tend to discount it happening here. So I think that Schaumburg would be a good candidate to be name Rene's heir as he has free reign but would probably be inclined to pick a family relation and the Schaumburgs would be the only adult male relatives he as (excluding the husbands of female cousins).

Next the old Nassau territories of Siegen and Dillenburg would likely devolve first to John III of Nassau-Bielstein who was descended from a younger brother of Otto II of Nassau Siegen (more on him later). But by 1540 John III was 45 years old and 17 years married with no children it's likely he'll still die without a son as OTL. So unless I've missed someone at that point the Ottonian line (the branch of the House of Nassau descended from Otto I) would have completely died out. Siegen, Dillenburg and Bielstein would pass to the Walram line (descendants of Otto's older brother Walram II). But it's unclear how the territories would be divvied up as there are multiple branches of the Walram line extant (Wiesbaden, Weilburg and Saarbrucken with Saarburcken on the brink of dying out itself unless the butterflies intervene). So I assume the Nassau territories are shuffled around the remaining branches of the family but if they squabble then that gives the Emperor a chance to intervene.

Vianden and Breda were both inherited through marriage (Otto II's marriage to Aleyda of Vianden and his grandson Englebert I's marraige Johanna van Polanen respectively). So those territories obviously could pass through a female line. So even the Bielstein branch of the Ottonian line would have no claim to them. I suppose that Rene could attempt to dispose of them in his will along with Orange if he outlives his uncle William but I think that his uncle's daughters would have a pretty strong claim (especially if William designates them his heirs) and such a will would be contested if they were excluded. This where it gets interesting because William and/or Rene could try to regulate the succession by marrying William's daughter to a designated heir, say Otto's younger brother Jobst or maybe a distant Nassau cousin.

Brederode seems like a reasonable match for Anna of Egmond. Although, and not to harp on it, she could also be matched with Otto (as his second wife) or Jobst of Schaumburg if one of them is made heir to Rene. As for Rene having a son, anything is possible with a POD 15 years before his OTL death and 11 years before his marriage. I'd say it's definitely plausible and it basically renders all of the above moot as his son would be undisputed heir of all (though probably too young to marry Anna of Egmond).
 
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