WI: Western Anarchism rises from Liberalism instead of Socialism.

The basic idea is that one of the 19th century liberal free-trade supporters or possibly one of the 18th century French Physiocrats decides that no government sounds like a pretty good idea and coins the word "anarchism" before Proudhon.

How would anarchism develop from then on?

How would it effect liberalism as a whole?

How long would it be before the socialists use the word, if at all?
 
The basic idea is that one of the 19th century liberal free-trade supporters or possibly one of the 18th century French Physiocrats decides that no government sounds like a pretty good idea and coins the word "anarchism" before Proudhon.

How would anarchism develop from then on?

How would it effect liberalism as a whole?

How long would it be before the socialists use the word, if at all?
The Anarcho-liberals of Vicky2?
 

Skallagrim

Banned
The problem here is as follows: in the relevant time period, the state was pretty much a small bureaucracy, typically serving (to a great extent, at least) the interests of the elite. Historical revisionism notwithstanding, the conservatives often wanted it that way, while the (classical) liberals - even though they wanted a generally small government, a free market etc. - were in fact very often the people driving for reforms. I'm not exactly sure about America, but in various European countries, the (classical) liberals secured the passage of laws ensuring state pensions, government financing of education etc. etc.

Basically... the classical liberals and the 'moderate liberals' (who were precursors to... social democrats) were working hand in hand... to make the state (moderately!) bigger, actually. Conversely, lots of socialists initially saw the state as the instrument of the 'capitalists' (meaning, in their discourse, not 'free marketeers' but 'the really rich elite'). They were not exactly wrong. Very often, government forces were used to - for instance - violently break labour strikes. (And again... liberals typically voted in favour of labour laws! Albeit with reservations: their goal was limited state involvement, and certainly nothing like a social welfare state.)

What I'm trying to say is: given that situation, it is logical for socialists to be anti-state, and for classical liberals to be pro-state (or pro... a-bit-more-state). There's a reason even those socialists wh believed in a role for the state called for revolution: they saw the existing state as an enemy, to be overthrown and replaced. This is not to say there were no liberal thinkers who wanted something much like anarchism. But these were typically radicals who had at least some ties to the more "left wing" (proto-)anarchists.

If you want anarchism to arise from a classical liberal tradition, you need to make it so that the state is entirely in the hands of anti-market conservatives. This might prompt classical liberals to perceive state power as an intrinsic threat to human freedom, which would lead them to, well... something a bit like anarcho-capitalism, I'd say. (Although that movement is modern, and has its own quirks. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that classical liberalism would turn into a movement that closely resembles the OTL ideas of Frédéric Bastiat.)
 
@Skallagrim have some good point. In Denmark at least around 1900 the socialists supported lowering taxes and weaken the power of the state, while liberals wanted to raise taxes and conservatives wanted to increase state power. The late 19th century socialist was pretty anti-state in nature, it was only when they came to powerand Keynes presented his economic theories, they discovered that the state could be a tool to help the poor.
 
@Skallagrim have some good point. In Denmark at least around 1900 the socialists supported lowering taxes and weaken the power of the state, while liberals wanted to raise taxes and conservatives wanted to increase state power. The late 19th century socialist was pretty anti-state in nature, it was only when they came to powerand Keynes presented his economic theories, they discovered that the state could be a tool to help the poor.
Could some classical liberal theorist go against the grain so to speak? And advocate for a smaller state when no other liberals are doing so?

How about the Physiocrats?
 
Could some classical liberal theorist go against the grain so to speak? And advocate for a smaller state when no other liberals are doing so?
How about the Physiocrats?

The problem is that property rights only exist because of the state, as the property right was much weaker at that time because the state was weaker this was pretty obvious, also anarcho-capitalism are also just feudalism with a fancy name and feudalism still existed in europe at that time, mostly in the most shitty states. The rise of anarcho-capitalism only became pssible when feudalism was forgotten or romanticised, and some people began to forget the connection between the state's monopoly of force and property rights.
 
The problem is that property rights only exist because of the state, as the property right was much weaker at that time because the state was weaker this was pretty obvious, also anarcho-capitalism are also just feudalism with a fancy name and feudalism still existed in europe at that time, mostly in the most shitty states. The rise of anarcho-capitalism only became pssible when feudalism was forgotten or romanticised, and some people began to forget the connection between the state's monopoly of force and property rights.
Feudalism is a form of state organization. It has no connection to any form of anarchism, socialist or capitalist.

Let's not turn this into a political argument.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Of course, the point here is not to determine whether this anarchist brand of liberalism will actually work. Merely to have it emerge and exist. (After all, the more socialist types of anarchism, when attempted, have also tended to result in power structures that are... well, a government-by-any-other-name.)

Whether this 'anarchist liberalism' will turn out to (often) turn into something resembling feudalism is another question. First, let's figure out how it can come to exist in the first place. :)
 
Of course, the point here is not to determine whether this anarchist brand of liberalism will actually work. Merely to have it emerge and exist. (After all, the more socialist types of anarchism, when attempted, have also tended to result in power structures that are... well, a government-by-any-other-name.)

Whether this 'anarchist liberalism' will turn out to (often) turn into something resembling feudalism is another question. First, let's figure out how it can come to exist in the first place. :)
Thank you
 
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