WI: West African merchants in the Americas

In OTL, the Carthaginians managed to create colonies on the western coast of Morocco and were trading as far as Senegal and Gambia. What if they manage to establish minor settlements in the region, leading to Carthaginian influence. Eventually, as the result of butterflies, West Africans start to trade on the northern coast of Brazil and the Caribbean as early as the 600s or 900s. What would be the effect on Native American civilization? Would the Americas be somewhat more protected from disease?
 
Is Sailing to South America from West Africa easier than to Europe.
At least I remember reading about something like that. Might not be accurate.
 
Why would these merchants sail across unknown waters? Why not sail where there are certain oppurtunities close by?

In an alternate history where the Carthaginians overcome (or merely survive) Rome, I can see sailing technology developing much more rapidly than OTL as their sphere of influence focuses on mercantilism and control of trade rather than outright conquest. Trips to West Africa could very conceivably be blown by storm to South America, and with an abundance of timber it would be possible for the crew to fix the ship and sail home, bringing tales of the new land. I admit it's unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible.

To answer OP, Native Americans would not be better protected from disease; however, early and prolonged contact with Old World diseases from merchants would allow the populations to be exposed to diseases and recover from epidemics while said diseases become endemic. This would make it less likely that future conquerors will be able to use inadvertent biological weapons against the Native Americans. Plus, African mosquito-spread diseases becoming endemic to the Americas could protect Native Americans from European conquest. However, we will see cultural collapses as diseases spread and a lot of cultural shock from plagues.

Metal goods from Africa would be quite valuable for Native Americans, and coastal societies could become quite focused on obtaining these items, and eventually they may adopt metallurgy. Domestic animals from Africa could become adopted by Native Americans, which would open up savanna habitats in tropical South America to developing a much higher population fed by sheep and cattle.

The effect on Africa if cassava and maize is introduced this early will be massive. These crops were as transformative for Africa as the potato was for Europe, and we will see a population explosion south of the Sahara.
 
Is Sailing to South America from West Africa easier than to Europe.
At least I remember reading about something like that. Might not be accurate.

The ocean currents and trade winds blow directly from Africa to the Caribbean, so it wouldn't be hard for ships to get across the Atlantic.

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I think there is a bit of an easier POD in simply having Musa II Keita come back from South America. It was at least mildly plausible to have him actually make his way back to Africa, which would mean that Mali has a bit of a head start on Europe to colonize the Americas, and it will have said advantage until Europe shows shows up a bit later.
 

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I think there is a bit of an easier POD in simply having Musa II Keita come back from South America. It was at least mildly plausible to have him actually make his way back to Africa, which would mean that Mali has a bit of a head start on Europe to colonize the Americas, and it will have said advantage until Europe shows shows up a bit later.
Are you sure you're not thinking of Abu Bakr II?
 
Are you sure you're not thinking of Abu Bakr II?
Yes, there it is, thank you!
Pretty late POD, but getting some West African horses to Mexico would change things. Africa could use some alternative commodities to reduce slave exports. It's a long shot, but perhaps bring back cacao.
Or tomatoes maybe. Really, even if it is one trip, just getting a buncha goods and coming back would revolutionize things in Mali. It could mean that Mali remains a wealthy powerhouse even into the age of Exploration.
 
I think there is a bit of an easier POD in simply having Musa II Keita come back from South America. It was at least mildly plausible to have him actually make his way back to Africa, which would mean that Mali has a bit of a head start on Europe to colonize the Americas, and it will have said advantage until Europe shows shows up a bit later.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Abu Bakr II?

Many specialists think that he didn't even exist. It's some kind of legend, nothing more.
 
I think there is a bit of an easier POD in simply having Musa II Keita come back from South America. It was at least mildly plausible to have him actually make his way back to Africa, which would mean that Mali has a bit of a head start on Europe to colonize the Americas, and it will have said advantage until Europe shows shows up a bit later.

I've seen a lot of forums about the Mali Empire reaching the Americas and colonizing it, I even made my own on another website.

In an alternate history where the Carthaginians overcome (or merely survive) Rome, I can see sailing technology developing much more rapidly than OTL as their sphere of influence focuses on mercantilism and control of trade rather than outright conquest. Trips to West Africa could very conceivably be blown by storm to South America, and with an abundance of timber it would be possible for the crew to fix the ship and sail home, bringing tales of the new land. I admit it's unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible.

I agree with you. It's not impossible. There is already some evidence of Africans in Pre-Columbian America, but I'm not going to go into that

The effect on Africa if cassava and maize is introduced this early will be massive. These crops were as transformative for Africa as the potato was for Europe, and we will see a population explosion south of the Sahara.

We Africans were spoilt for choice, when it comes to crops. I think that if we Africans obtained Maize and Cassava hundreds of years before we did, there would have been a population explosion, which would create some interesting situations.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Abu Bakr II?
Many specialists think that he didn't even exist. It's some kind of legend, nothing more.

I'm pretty sure Abu Bakr II did exist.
 
I'm pretty sure Abu Bakr II did exist.

Some points of criticism mentioned in the German Wikipedia article about him:

1) His plans are mentioned only by one Arabian source (al-Umari), even if his plan was so important that it should had have repercussions and be mentioned by other Arabian authors.
2) Ibn Khaldun, another islamic historian writes nothing about the expedition; in his history book, Abu Bakr "II" isn't even a king.
3) Neither the Malian written records nor the popular tales mention Abu Bakr's expedition. The epics don't even know a ruler of this namen.
4) Storys about rulers challenging the fate were quite popular in these times, and al-Umari might just have taken-up a topic popular in Islamic literature and adapted it to a Malian ruler.

That's why the article comes to the conclusion that Abu Bakr II is a legendary ruler.
 
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