WI: Washington/Jefferson 1789?

And Jefferson in 1797?

In a TL in which John Adams' ship sinks on the way back from the UK in 1788 and Jefferson is encouraged by Washington to reenter domestic politics (perhaps at the funeral?) is it at all possible for Jefferson to be chosen by the Electoral College as the Vice President?

If so, can Jefferson narrowly defeat Hamilton in 1797?

What are the effects of an earlier Jefferson administration? Full support for France and no quasi-war are a given...

Earlier war with Britain?

Discuss?
 
Very interesting scenario, and there would definitely be an earlier push for States Rights, as well as a grand push for pro-French alliance.

Nitpick: Would it not have to be a Northerner on the ticket to balance it out as VP?
 
Who else would be on the ship? If Quincy is aboard it would mean that a great diplomatic statesman is lost. John Adams being, of course, anything but diplomatic on the domestic and foreign stages, even if he was principled. Perhaps we should go over what tie breakers Adams made while President of the Senate, though after hand waving that there would of course be butterflies and we are simply inserting Jeffrerson into the role.
 
Very interesting scenario, and there would definitely be an earlier push for States Rights, as well as a grand push for pro-French alliance.

Nitpick: Would it not have to be a Northerner on the ticket to balance it out as VP?

Ahhhh right, wasn't Adams the only non-Virginian until his son came around?
 
pretty much.

is there a states rights northerner?

Probably, but they got crushed by slander about attempted secession, not to mention how the 3/5 compromise is what got Jefferson his win as President anyways. It is simply harder to unify northern votes when the South is kept in the hand of a few thousand electors.
 
Who else would be on the ship? If Quincy is aboard it would mean that a great diplomatic statesman is lost. John Adams being, of course, anything but diplomatic on the domestic and foreign stages, even if he was principled. Perhaps we should go over what tie breakers Adams made while President of the Senate, though after hand waving that there would of course be butterflies and we are simply inserting Jeffrerson into the role.

Quincy is in Russia, I believe.

Also, territorialist "tickets" weren't a thing at that time because there weren't tickets or campaigns. The runner up, regardless of party or home state, was Veep.
 
Quincy is in Russia, I believe.

Also, territorialist "tickets" weren't a thing at that time because there weren't tickets or campaigns. The runner up, regardless of party or home state, was Veep.

They are bound to change it anyways, much as they did the fourth term. I say fourth term as I am unsure where or not to count those Washington was in as having an actual election.
 
Yes, it'd pretty much need to be someone not from Virginia, because the Constitution says the electors can't vote for two people from their home state. So, unless the proto-Republican-coalition wants to throw away Virginia's electoral votes, they'll need to nominate someone else.

is there a states rights northerner?
George Clinton, Governor of New York, proto-Republican VP nominee in 1792.

Alternatively, Aaron Burr... but no one really trusted him. Ever.
 
Yes, it'd pretty much need to be someone not from Virginia, because the Constitution says the electors can't vote for two people from their home state. So, unless the proto-Republican-coalition wants to throw away Virginia's electoral votes, they'll need to nominate someone else.


George Clinton, Governor of New York, proto-Republican VP nominee in 1792.

Alternatively, Aaron Burr... but no one really trusted him. Ever.

I believe the Habitation Clause was created with the 12th Amendment, so that really shouldn't be an issue.
 
I believe the Habitation Clause was created with the 12th Amendment, so that really shouldn't be an issue.
It was repeated there, but it wasn't created there:
US Constitution said:
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves.
 
It was repeated there, but it wasn't created there:

Ah so it, my bad. You're right than, George Clinton is the obvious choice for Vice President. This might, ironically hurt the Democratic- Republicans with an Adams-Hamilton style feud transferring to Clinton-Jefferson.

Maybe we see

1789-1797: George Washington/George Clinton
1797-1801: George Clinton/Alexander Hamilton (Yes they are both from New York, but it's a state that both sides would have fought for)
Quasi War with England
1801-1809: Alexander Hamilton/Thomas Pinckney
 
Quincy is in Russia, I believe.

Also, territorialist "tickets" weren't a thing at that time because there weren't tickets or campaigns. The runner up, regardless of party or home state, was Veep.

There were still tickets, however - electors were strongly encouraged to give their second vote to a favored candidate from the other section, like Pinckney in 1796. The fact that it didn't always work doesn't mean that it wasn't tried.
 
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John Jay had the next highest number of votes in the Electoral College after Adams so it seems that , at least in OTL, Jay was the second choice of Northerners.
Clinton had been an anti-Federalist and I believe most of the first Electors were of the Federalist persuasion so I think any VP other than Adams would have been a Northern federalist. if not Jay, perhaps Robert Morris who in OTL was offered the Secretary of the Treasury position by GW but turned it down and recommended the young Alexander Hamiltion. Morris was then elected to the Senate from Pennsylvania where he played a key role in the Residency Question (the site of the national capital).

Your humble servant
AH
 
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