WI: Washington abandons New York

Minty_Fresh

Banned
The American army really had no chance of defending New York, being outnumbered, undertrained, and without a navy. What if Washington simply abandoned the city, as he claimed he wanted to do, but not allowed to due to political pressure, and took up position in the Hudson Highlands that he would fortify and make almost unattackable later on in the war?

Would this help the American cause long term? Washington would not lose the men he did in the fights for New York, nor would he lose the vastly larger amount of men who simply marched home out of camp during the standoff period at Harlem Heights, nor would he lose the vast amount of men lost in the defense of Fort Washington and the near disentegration of the southern column (most of the army's troops from the Mid Atlantic colonies) in the aftermath of the loss of Fort Lee. But on the flip side, abandoning New York without a fight would not help gain support for the war effort, nor would burning the city, which would make sense militarily but not politically.

Essentially, do you think Washington having 10-15K troops entrenched and unscathed around New York City on the high ground north and keeping the vast amounts of war materiel lost in OTL's retreat from the city is worth the propaganda defeat of abandoning the city?
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
Yes. It is worth it. The only way it is not worth is if abandoning the city and retreating leads troops to just March home at that point
 

ben0628

Banned
Knowing Washington, he'd still manage to find a way to screw things up. Howe's forces tremendously outnumber Washington. Howe isn't dumb so he won't attack Washington if he's on well fortified high ground. He'll simply do what he did at Long Island (and Brandywine) and simply outflank Washington's forces.

To be honest that entire campaign season would be a loss for Washington regardless of what he does. Either his army gets it's ass kicked at Long Island or he abandons NYC from the onset which not only is political suicide but will also lower the moral of the troops. His forces would be beaten elsewhere and he'd still probably retreat to PA. However, this all might butterfly away Trenton.
 
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Minty_Fresh

Banned
Knowing Washington, he'd still manage to find a way to screw things up. Howe's forces tremendously outnumber Washington. Howe isn't dumb so he won't attack Washington if he's on well fortified high ground. He'll simply do what he did at Long Island (and Brandywine) and simply outflank Washington's forces.

To be honest that entire campaign season would be a loss for Washington regardless of what he does. Either his army gets it's ass kicked at Long Island or he abandons NYC from the onset which not only is political suicide but will also lower the moral of the troops. His forces would be beaten elsewhere and he'd still probably retreat to PA. However, this all might butterfly away Trenton.
I'm not discussing an attempt of Washington to obstruct Howe's movement. Howe DID outflank Washington not only at LI and Brandywine, but he attempted to do so at Harlem Heights afterwards by making a landing at Pell's Point. Washington used some of his most reliable Massachusetts veterans to slow Howe down, with a fighting retreat that allowed Washington to move his army off of Harlem Heights and entrench at White Plains.

I'm not talking about getting in an area that will allow for a fight. I am talking about getting in the same area that Washington occupied for most of 1778-1883, the Hudson Highlands, with his forces controlling the Hudson River with a series of fortifications and the main body of his army in the mountainous regions nearby in the NY-NJ borderlands, allowing him to harass any British forays into NJ from the base at Morristown and at the same time be within a day's march of the Hudson. This allowed Washington to avoid pitched battle and keep a watch on the British for 5 years, with a significantly smaller (albeit better trained) force.

The British would be occupying a burned out New York City in this scenario, which they had planned to use as the center of King's Authority in America. They could make a land march on Philadelphia, and that would cause conflict, but the scenario I am laying out essentially denies the British their major victories in fall 1776 while still ceding them the land.
 
The British would be occupying a burned out New York City in this scenario,"

How would New York have ended up burnt out?
 

Minty_Fresh

Banned
The British would be occupying a burned out New York City in this scenario,"

How would New York have ended up burnt out?
The Americans would burn it and take everything of use on carts out of the city before the British arrive. OTL there was a fire right as the British took NYC, which seems likely to have been caused by Patriot sympathizers of tenuous connection to Washington, although nothing is certain.

This would obviously be a huge propaganda problem for the American cause, which is why Congress forbade Washington from intentionally doing so OTL, despite indications that he was thinking about it.
 
Interesting. On Wiki it says the population was 20,000-what happens to them? It surely doesn't sound like good publicity for the Patriots. What's the evidence that Washington was thinking this, other than his general dislike of the city. Could he get away with blaiming it on the British or Loyalists?

(Sorry, don't know anything about the militaary situation so can't comment on that?)
 
Interesting. On Wiki it says the population was 20,000-what happens to them? It surely doesn't sound like good publicity for the Patriots. What's the evidence that Washington was thinking this, other than his general dislike of the city. Could he get away with blaiming it on the British or Loyalists?

(Sorry, don't know anything about the militaary situation so can't comment on that?)
As far as what would happen to the population, I believe that would be dependent on the damage done to the city as a whole. If there is anything salvageable after the destruction of the city then it is possible that some of the Loyalist population remains to rebuild. New York City is an important location on a strategic level and just abandoning it (if it is salvageable) to the colonists would be foolish.
 
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