House of Lorraine?Did we have any examples of dynastes being literally moved to new places IOTL?
House of Lorraine?Did we have any examples of dynastes being literally moved to new places IOTL?
Well I was thinking about Vienna specifically, anyway you mean the Habsburg-Lorraine? That's just the female line of the Habsburgs and the male line of Lorraine uniting, to me it seems quite disconnected from the Wettin being moved around.House of Lorraine?![]()
What a strange thing to say, OTL there was indeed something stopping the french and Russians from returning things to the status quo once Germany had united it was called the Prussian (and later German) army and it had just mopped the floor with France.
Well, Dutch is a corruption of DeutschBy the time of the Reformation the Duchy of Saxony was in modern Saxony, a middle German area.
Saxony was up to this used for both Lower and Upper Saxony, but I imagine they would specify in this case, "Lower Saxon" in this case or possibly even Dutch(while OTL Dutch could be replaced by something else)
THe House of Lorraine gave up their ancestral lands to France and got the Tuscany as a compensantion.Well I was thinking about Vienna specifically, anyway you mean the Habsburg-Lorraine? That's just the female line of the Habsburgs and the male line of Lorraine uniting, to me it seems quite disconnected from the Wettin being moved around.
In my timeline, Germany wasn't united in 1866. In fact, there was a big war between the German states. If after the Prussians laid down their terms, the Russians and French declared that the territorial changes were unacceptable and mobilized their armies, just what would the Prussians and their allies be capable of? Not much especially as Bavaria, Baden, Saxony, Wurttemberg, Hesse and Austria would have supported them
Even in 1870, the states below the Main could have been kept neutral with skillful French diplomacy A single French victory may also have been enough to have many of the little states jump ship
That's all well and dandy but you said OTL not ATLIn my timeline, Germany wasn't united in 1866. In fact, there was a big war between the German states. If after the Prussians laid down their terms, the Russians and French declared that the territorial changes were unacceptable and mobilized their armies, just what would the Prussians and their allies be capable of? Not much especially as Bavaria, Baden, Saxony, Wurttemberg, Hesse and Austria would have supported them
Even in 1870, the states below the Main could have been kept neutral with skillful French diplomacy A single French victory may also have been enough to have many of the little states jump ship
Perhaps you can explain to me what happened in your timeline
No one likes, when their neighbours get stronger, when they don't. Russian relations with France were improving gradually after Crimean War, then January Uprising started, Prussia happily offered help to Russia (Alvensleben Convention) and Tsar in return has given green light to German unification. Otherwise unification was not good for Russia. Prussia at times was close to being Russian vassal (after Napoleonic Wars) and was not threat to Russia, even in theory. Position of German Empire vis a vis Russia was much stronger now.Why would Russia oppose Prussia? Her main rival was Austria, and her relations with France and GB varied from cool to frigid. Prussia was the only major power with whom she had no quarrel.
This may piss off the Russians who were far more instrumental in Napoleon's downfall than the Prussians.What if in Vienna Prussia get her 1795 eastern border back? Or even better-whole Grand Duchy of Warsaw or even this + Galizia (perhaps Napoleon, instead of creating GDW allowed King od Prussia to keep his part of Poland as separate Kingdom to appease Poles). It would force Prussians in the future to create dual monarchy, northern analogue of A-H, and would distract Prussia's attention from the West.
Well I was thinking about Vienna specifically, anyway you mean the Habsburg-Lorraine? That's just the female line of the Habsburgs and the male line of Lorraine uniting, to me it seems quite disconnected from the Wettin being moved around.
Not Russians, just Tsar. It was Alex' idea to create Congress Kingdom. Have just him not being obsessed about being saviour of Poles and 1795 borders could be easily restored.This may piss off the Russians who were far more instrumental in Napoleon's downfall than the Prussians.
Which Houses were given land for example?the entire German Mediatization scheme was in order to get land to give to the west bank Rhineland houses dispossessed by France
Which Houses were given land for example?
No one likes, when their neighbours get stronger, when they don't. Russian relations with France were improving gradually after Crimean War, then January Uprising started, Prussia happily offered help to Russia (Alvensleben Convention) and Tsar in return has given green light to German unification. Otherwise unification was not good for Russia. Prussia at times was close to being Russian vassal (after Napoleonic Wars) and was not threat to Russia, even in theory. Position of German Empire vis a vis Russia was much stronger now.
THe House of Lorraine gave up their ancestral lands to France and got the Tuscany as a compensantion.
That's all well and dandy but you said OTL not ATL
Why would Russia oppose Prussia? Her main rival was Austria, and her relations with France and GB varied from cool to frigid. Prussia was the only major power with whom she had no quarrel.
Had French diplomacy been skilful, the war wouldn't have broken out in the first place.
With the North German Federation 2/3 of Germany were already unified and the rest was tied economically and politically with it, even if France doesn't declare war(possibly leaving a Hohenzollern in Spain) I think the 2 parts would converge more and more together.Still waiting: Are you claiming that there was no German war in 1866 for Russia and France to intervene in? Because in my history books there is. What timeline are you living in without it
That it didn't happen in OTl doesn't mean it can't. A different Russian calculation is possible especially as it was the minor German princes that suffered and not Austria from the treaty. Prussia took no territory from Austria but did annex Hanover. The deposing of a Divine Right monarch struck deep at the political foundations of Russia. So yes, a different Russian calculation is possible
As for relations between France and Russia at the time: countries have interests. When those interests agree they cooperate
Your right: France could have avoided the 1870 war. And if she does, the unification of Germany doesn't happen
According to the Wikipedia:By the time of the Reformation the Duchy of Saxony was in modern Saxony, a middle German area.
Saxony was up to this used for both Lower and Upper Saxony, but I imagine they would specify in this case, "Lower Saxon" in this case or possibly even Dutch(while OTL Dutch could be replaced by something else)
So we're talking Low/Nether German, Low/Nether Saxon, or Platt (German).In Germany, native speakers of Low German call their language Platt, Plattdüütsch or Nedderdüütsch. In the Netherlands, native speakers refer to their language as dialect, plat, nedersaksies, or the name of their village, town or district.
Officially, Low German is called Niederdeutsch(Nether or Low German) by the German authorities and Nedersaksisch (Nether or Low Saxon) by the Dutch authorities. Plattdeutsch, Niederdeutsch and Platduits, Nedersaksischare seen in linguistic texts from the German and Dutch linguistic communities respectively.