WI: Walt Disney lives to 1981?

I really question this. Most Disney movies targeted children and families. Family entertainment is not very political. Most people were not hippies or radical leftists. Disney films might be mocked by the new cultural elites and art critics in the same way they mocked Norman Rockwell's art, but Rockwell was always very popular. Most people left of the center still held those "conservative" values. The Wonderful World of Walt Disney TV anthology show was still being shown all throughout this time. Its ratings decline were because the quality of shows had declined. In fact, as the times get worse in the late sixties and seventies, escapism through Disney films might make these new movies and shows even more popular.

If Walt Disney could still impart the same creative vitality and quality to his animated films and TV shows that he had earlier, I think they'll be just as popular as ever.



Plus we have to remember that a conservative in the mid to late 60's is not necessary the same as a conservative now. Supposedly there is a rumor that Walt was wearing a Goldwater button when he got the Medal of Freedom from Johnson. Now let's look at Goldwater's policies and put them through a current political spectrum test. Chances are, Goldwater would rank as a libertarian today rather than a conservative. I strongly feel that Walt would be the same. If he was alive today, he probably would not have like Obama, but I really doubt he'd be supporting Trump.
 
If he is able to build EPCOT along the lines of his original vision I wonder what that does to the development of his other theme parks in Florida. Does this mean Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom never happen?

The corporation will still go in a similar direction after his death, they simply occur later in time. Only so much of EPCOT could be done. While Walt is alive there are no more theme parks. His successors will seek to build them though, probably overseas first.
 
Disney was a life-long animal lover and a pioneer in wildlife documentaries. He died about the time the Endangered Species Act was being drafted. Could he have embraced '70s ecologism, and used the Disney machinery to campaign for wildlife preservation and rewilding efforts? I just got this idea of old Walt being decissive in an earlier return of the wolf to Yellowstone and other places.
 
I could see EPCOT becoming rather similar to Celebration, Florida, with a futurist techno dressing rather than Celebration's good ole days theming.
he himself was no more antisemitic then any other American during this period
Perhaps a bit more than the Jewish ones.
 
Disney was a life-long animal lover and a pioneer in wildlife documentaries. He died about the time the Endangered Species Act was being drafted. Could he have embraced '70s ecologism, and used the Disney machinery to campaign for wildlife preservation and rewilding efforts? I just got this idea of old Walt being decissive in an earlier return of the wolf to Yellowstone and other places.

He was effectively already doing it with plans for EPCOT and Disney World. All of the vehicles on property were supposed to be electrically power with the energy generated from a green source, a nuclear power plant created by GE. The water supply designed for Disney World comes right from the natural supplies pulled around it and then released back in a recycled manner. EPCOT's city center buildings had sod turfing on the buildings as the roof. The Magic Kingdom had an AVAC system installed to handle trash and waste, EPCOT might've as well too. The industrial buildings were not supposed to release any polluting exhaust because they were electrically powered. They would've used a lot of space with ambient lighting and more as would've the international shopping center at a time when few cities actually such a situation going on. Who knows what types of technology EPCOT might've produced as well in this area. Walt was very much moving towards green development in the middle of the 1960's. All of this was done as to not to negatively effect the ecosystem and riparian habitat of wetlands and swamps living on the Florida property. It was revolutionary for its time.

I could see EPCOT becoming rather similar to Celebration, Florida, with a futurist techno dressing rather than Celebration's good ole days theming.
Perhaps a bit more than the Jewish ones.

I don't look past this idea either. This type of community actually sounds a lot like on which Walt was originally thinking about for Palm Beach, Florida or for the movie studios in the 1930's.

There never would've been enough tenants for the industrial parks to make it function, especially during the 1970's. Disney tried manufacturing ideas with satellite campuses in planning the theme park version, no one wanted to be a tenant. Even with there is little reason for a tenant to move into one of the buildings Disney had planned except for the architecture and a free Disney owned nuclear power plant as the source. Manufacturing starts to be off shored during this time period anyway by American corporations. That being the case, the idea of having Disney's tenants produce all of the products and technology and products right on site in Florida to be tested and installed constantly in EPCOT wouldn't have worked. Constant changes may have discouraged renters as well.

There was very little incentive in the plan for corporations to lease industrial buildings Disney had never built before anywhere else, rented homes and apartments which were going to be little different than those nearby in other communities such as Orlando or Tampa to just to commute to work with. This is what Disney employees already do now. Their being no ability for personal ownership, probably incredibly strict HOA's, and other means increases the disinterest for future tenants to want to rent from Disney.

I find it unlikely that EPCOT ever gets close to the 20,000 that Disney hoped to attract to live there. Maybe a couple of hundred at best. It already is not being a real community with an elected government, but one which is simply an unincorporated housing tract or subdivision. Installing all of that infrastructure is costly and expensive. EPCOT was going to cost over $500 million to build in late 1960's figures according to feasibility studies done by the company. The first phase cost about $100 million less. During the 1970's the corporation was not willing to spend so much money. I find that installing all of the lighting, sewage, AVAC, landscaping, streets, individual houses, and apartment buildings would've been too costly for Walt's board too consider. I really feel like the who thing would end up not being a series of suburban neighborhoods in a circle, but a high rise subdivision instead simply because of the cost effectiveness of it.
 
incidentally, i actually devised a POD for Walt living longer for one of my own projects: simply put, he doesn't get drafted to World War I. why? well that was where he picked up his smoking habit which ultimately led to his death. i even figured he would live roughly as long as this (short by just two years, based on when other people with his birth year died naturally on average) as a result of not getting cancer
It wasn't all Dark, though. If one considers the Disney Dark Age to have been about 1970-1989, starting with The Aristocats and ending with The Little Mermaid, there were a few gems here and there, most notably The Rescuers and The Great Mouse Detective (seriously, Vincent Price as Ratigan kicks ass:)). Also, in the late 80s, towards the end of the Dark Age, the animation in the films was notably better, as seen in The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver & Company, which in turn foretold the success that would be The Little Mermaid. But yes, I agree that the animation in the Disney movies in the 70s and the first half of the 80s was generally weaker than in earlier times, and the recycled animation didn't help either. Actually, Disney was recycling animation already in the 60s:
frankly, even alot of Disney's "bad" Animated Canon entries are still pretty good--the ones that are less successful are just a bit less memorable and atypical for the company, such as Atlantis and Treasure Planet of their post-Renaissance period lacking in musical numbers*. obviously, that's arguable, but the way i see it their theatrical Animated Canon movies are more in the vein of "great", "good", and "less good" rather than "great", "good", and "bad" (contrast Don Bluth, as great as alot of his productions are, who had a pretty bad period in the 90s with the likes of A Troll in Central Park but made an arguable comeback with Anastasia)



*i actually noticed an interesting pattern with this where the "bad" Disney movies are the ones that don't really have the characters themselves singing--notice that Tarzan, considered by many to be the end of the Disney Renaissance, still had songs in it, but all of them sung off-screen by Phil Collins as opposed to on-screen by the characters as was the case with Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Snow White, Lion King, and Hunchback of Notre Dame, in contrast to Dark Age entries such as Sword in the Stone and Black Cauldron, AND their big comebacks with Princess and the Frog and Frozen have the characters singing again
 
It is interesting to speculate about how Disney World would have developed.

When I was there last year we took a behind the scenes tour of Animal Kingdom. One of the employees told us that Disney World is about half developed.

Of the 27,000 acres about 9,000 are developed another 9,000 were set aside by Walt as permanent conservation land. That means another 9,000 acres can still be developed meaning that currently only about half of the land that can developed is developed. That leaves a lot of land left to do something with.
 
There is a reason they don't develop the whole riparian habitat on the property. Mostly because it would irreversibly destroy it, especially if too much water is used up.

Walt was a member of the Sierra Club and considered building the Mineral King ski resort in the middle of Sequoia National Park. There was an environmentalist and conservationist in him. After his death, that relationship changed though. If Walt had lived, the ski resort would probably exist today and Disney would have two enterprises in California. It would also be potentially a different type of resort as well.
 
There is a reason they don't develop the whole riparian habitat on the property. Mostly because it would irreversibly destroy it, especially if too much water is used up.

Walt was a member of the Sierra Club and considered building the Mineral King ski resort in the middle of Sequoia National Park. There was an environmentalist and conservationist in him. After his death, that relationship changed though. If Walt had lived, the ski resort would probably exist today and Disney would have two enterprises in California. It would also be potentially a different type of resort as well.

yeah, i could see a Disney ski resort as being something of a stationary miniature cruise line in its appeal and amenities. they'd probably get a big boost in popularity following the release of Frozen
 
There is a reason they don't develop the whole riparian habitat on the property. Mostly because it would irreversibly destroy it, especially if too much water is used up.

Walt was a member of the Sierra Club and considered building the Mineral King ski resort in the middle of Sequoia National Park. There was an environmentalist and conservationist in him. After his death, that relationship changed though. If Walt had lived, the ski resort would probably exist today and Disney would have two enterprises in California. It would also be potentially a different type of resort as well.

My point is that in Walt's initial vision, up to two-thirds of the land that makes up Walt Disney World today was open for development with one-third left for conservation. So if Walt lives longer we are still going to see a lot of development and construction at Disney World. What is interesting to speculate on is how that development would have different with him in the picture longer.
 
Another criticism of EPCOT's original design is that it would've only taken about ten minutes for most employs living in the circle surrounding the city center or indoor themed shopping mall with different countries to make the half mile or so walk, bike, or electric cart journey to work from houses and apartments on the outskirts. Was an electronically powered, constantly moving people mover system really necessary to have with residents this close? It's pretty costly and non practical even for Disney. Was it worth maintaining all of those years into the future as well or would it have broken down over time and been replaced or removed completely?

Also, why couldn't EPCOT have been more of a traditional element. I could see it evolving to be something much more practical like Celebration does. The main economic engine to have employs live there would've been the never to be built industrial park. There is also the immense issue with getting employees to even want to live on resort property when they can live just about anywhere else in a commutable distance and will be able to do basic things like shop where they live and own land as well. There would be no HOA's like for Disney as well. Is it also simply practical to have just employs of Disney and partner corporations living in this community or a mainstream population as well?

It has to become more mainstream to really succeed or it threatens to become a relic of the past. It's extremely expensive to renovate old and aging architecture, buildings, and a whole community compared to a theme park or movie studio. EPCOT may become a community with at the center is an enclosed shopping area with all types of needed retail such as grocery, restaurant, clothing, hardware, and others in the middle all residents can use. Some will be able to work here. The unincorporated subdivision may keep its circular street design. A simplified people mover system may make sense, but on a much reduced scale than Walt's 1960's vision for it. The architecture may change as well. Over time, after Walt's death, EPCOT simply becomes a strange, circular subdivision of houses on resort property. The Disney company doesn't even operate it anymore, but hires a third party management firm to do so instead. EPCOT doesn't decline because of blight and changing of times simply because the HOA is extremely strict compared to most others. The final name for the community probably doesn't even end up being EPCOT, but something like Progress or Disney Heights.
 
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I don't know if the WedWay system idea will make it to the cutting board simply because the residents could walt to work in only a few minutes or even use an electric cart. It would be probably simply a boring circular subdivision of houses at the end of the day.
 
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