What if Vladimir Lenin hadn't died in his fifties and had survived to at least 75? How might him living longer have changed the course of history?
WI: Vladimir Lenin lives to at least 1945
- Thread starter Mort the Reaper
- Start date
I bit doubt that Lenin would live that long. His health wasn't very good anymore and stress over his job was taking his powers. Even without his assassination attempt on 1918 I don't expect him living longer than ten years. Even with this things would change dramatically. Stalin would be eventually purged and probably there would be some other purges but not so massive as Stalin had.
going by how mao was with an extended life, probably a russian version of the cultural revolution in the 20s and 30s
Mao launched the Cultural Revolution to get back at his own party for marginalising him. Lenin would never be in that situation, and ideologically was quite different from Mao.
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
In the 1920s, Lenin helped bring about NEP (New Economic Policy), which was small scale capitalism.
Many things would change. WW2 might still occur but it would be greatly different. And Lenin wasn't stupid enough to execute his best generals and replace them with incompetent political officers so even if Hitler still rises to power and launch Barbarossa it wouldn't be very succesful when Lenin would believe reporst about planning invasions. And even if Germans reach Moscow Lenin would had evacuated himself in time. He was already practised to escaping by Okhrana. And even if Lening is about to be captured he probably commits suicide.
Agree. Lenin was ruthless man who used violence if needed but he wasn't nearby as murderous and paranoid as Stalin. He was too pragmatic enough to realise what would are good ideas. Surviving Lenin wouldn't purge communist party in such degree as Stalin did and it is too possible that Lenin just would ratherly enforce some to resign. And he too wouldn't kill all of his best generals and not appoint pshychopaths like Beria to high-ranked offices. There too wouldn't be Holodomor.
And if nazis still take a power, Lenin might not make deals with them. But if Lenin is still alive in 1940's he might try take as much of Europe as possible. And if Lenin is still alive prior of Spanich Civil War (if still occurs) he might be more willingful to help republicans.
Molotov thought Lenin was more ruthless and terrorist than Stalin - and he knew both of them.
However, I would say than Lenin was less power-hungry and paranoid than Stalin.
If he lives longer... Many have thought that Lenin disapproved of Stalin's power-seeking maneuvers, his cultivation of cronies and protegés throughout the Party apparatus, and would have Done Something about Stalin. But Lenin in his life showed no signs of wanting to Do Anything drastic to other leading Bolsheviks, even those he viewed as rivals or deviationists. If he did denounce Stalin, he still wouldn't have him purged. Stalin might have to back off, and kiss up to Lenin for a while, but he'd probably keep his position. He'd continue his program of filling the Party with his followers. And by 1930 or so, maybe later, he could be strong enough to push Lenin himself aside.
There remains the possibility that Lenin makes enough trouble for himself to be set aside by the Politburo. He was contentious and arrogant, and in his life was not venerated the way he was when safely dead.
How does Lenin end up living longer?
If the answer is not getting shot 3 times by an assassin in 1918 then things go very differently.
That assassination attempt and the attempted coup it was associated with is something the USSR responded to the way the US responded to 9/11. This was the first time they banned another political party and the pretext on which they sold the start of the real slide into authoritatianism to the public.
Not suffering these injuries also gives Lenin a much more prominent role in the period after 1918 where he was alive.
If the answer is not getting shot 3 times by an assassin in 1918 then things go very differently.
That assassination attempt and the attempted coup it was associated with is something the USSR responded to the way the US responded to 9/11. This was the first time they banned another political party and the pretext on which they sold the start of the real slide into authoritatianism to the public.
Not suffering these injuries also gives Lenin a much more prominent role in the period after 1918 where he was alive.
Molotov was also fanatically loyal to Stalin. Just saying.
No way does Stalin ever get the clout to take on both Lenin and Trotsky together. Lenin is a smarter political animal than Stalin and 10 times the political animal Trotsky was.
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If Lenin lives and Stalin does not take power, where does this leave Trotsky? Would Trotsky be the appointed successor to Lenin?
In terms of Finland, would Lenin have demanded the Petsamo mines in the same way Stalin did, and invaded when rebuffed?
Would there still have been the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact?
If the Nazis take over as per OTL, would Lenin have listened to the intelligence reports of Nazi build ups in Poland and acted?
In terms of Finland, would Lenin have demanded the Petsamo mines in the same way Stalin did, and invaded when rebuffed?
Would there still have been the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact?
If the Nazis take over as per OTL, would Lenin have listened to the intelligence reports of Nazi build ups in Poland and acted?
So, how early do we have to change Lenin for this? Lenin was notorious for being a workaholic and most days slept 3 hours or so. You really don't live long with that habit.
But if he doesn't get shot in 1918 he maybe can reach the year 1930. He would probably try to fire Stalin from the post of General Secretary and reduce it's role more to a bureaucratic party organizer instead of the center of power it became IOTL. If he gets a majority at the party conference for that, he will try to force many bureaucrats out of power and promote younger party members. He also will end the NEP sooner and not as chaotic as Stalin did, so we will avert the Holodomor.
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Lenin wasn't bug-fuck nuts. Puts him a county mile ahead of Stalin.
Paradoxer
Banned
That sums it up best from anti Marxist or anti Marxist Lenin Bolshevik one. To be more “kind” with depiction Lenin basically more competent and calculated then Stalin even if just as ruthless. Also lacks the ego and paranoia.
Hate or like man, he was a fanatic who often did what he preach which is commendable especially compared to Stalin. Stalin more of an opportunist then fanatical Marxist hardliner like Lenin or Trotsky but unlike Trotsky Lenin much more calculated and pragmatic. H even lived modestly and followed communist ethics himself. Just a ruthless hardliner those that had no issue executing kids like ones in royal family.
I don’t understand why western Marxist and some leftist hype up Lenin or Trotsky. They would be less petty and crazy then Stalin but as ruthless and believe ends justify means even by force among “counter revolutionary” elements.
Stalin ruled for decade at least before purges and collectivism due to trying to centralized his power. Lenin will have cult of personality as “revolutionary figure” even if he tries to down play it party might not.
I disagree with death account numbers those. Stalin indirectly got many killed or starved by incompetence not full intention. Now they did not overly care if many starved but rather them not. Lenin would actually be more competent with his authoritarianism and reforms/social engineering then Stalin or even Trotsky ever could since he original ring leader.
Also Lenin is one person Stalin respected ironically and listen too. Lenin kept him “in line” when healthy and alive. Stalin was his jackboot internally while Trotsky ran military and some foreign affairs.
Lenin able to get stubborn big heads like Trotsky and Stalin in line and in same room saids enough about Lenin influence and respect as leader among his own.
His biggest concern besides assassination is working himself to death by stress or heartache because he was known as tried hard, anal, and work dog. But man had a strong stubborn will and ideology to him even if more pragmatic with it then Trotsky who over ambition for world Revolution would only see everyone team up against USSR early on to end it