WI Viscount Churchill

So assuming a situation where Churchill was made Viceroy of India without ever having been made PM, what would his title be?

I believe that in the 1950s Duke of London was mooted, but I would think London is far too high level for a man who was never PM.

Are there any other good possibilities?
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
So assuming a situation where Churchill was made Viceroy of India without ever having been made PM, what would his title be?
Viscount Churchill.

As to how he became Viceroy to India, however, is a more interesting question.
I believe that in the 1950s Duke of London was mooted, but I would think London is far too high level for a man who was never PM.
Well yes, and he was only ever offered it because of his time as Prime Minister, but he was the one who turned it down when offered by the Queen because he felt he could never sustain the lifestyle of a Duke, and didn't want to prematurely end the political careers of his son and grandson.
Are there any other good possibilities?
He could have inherited the Duke of Marlborough, or been made the Earl of Marlborough, in certain situations.

Lord Woodstock, Blenheim, Chartwell, Woodford, Epping, and Dundee are distinct possibilities as far as titles go.
 
As to how he became Viceroy to India, however, is a more interesting question.
Yes, and after India turned into a violent hellhole, sucking all of Britain's military and wealth under his tenure (check his opinions on India!!!), he'd be lucky not to be tried for treason, let alone given any honours.
 
Well yes, and he was only ever offered it because of his time as Prime Minister, but he was the one who turned it down when offered by the Queen because he felt he could never sustain the lifestyle of a Duke, and didn't want to prematurely end the political careers of his son and grandson.

Now I'd read a TL about him saying yes.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Now I'd read a TL about him saying yes.
Well, he was only offered the Dukedom in '55 when he retired (generally as part of the retirement package, when a PM left their seat it was customary for them to receive an Earldom for their service to the country; this ended with Wilson). It's worth noting that Churchill's driving motivation beyond his sons objections, the implication on the career of his son and grandson, and the financial implications, was simply the fact that he wanted to remain in Parliament, which he did until his Constituency was abolished in the 1964 General Election. A Churchill that is willing to accept that seat will be a Churchill who is aware that it is the end of his political career and is content to retire to the Lords.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Yes, and after India turned into a violent hellhole, sucking all of Britain's military and wealth under his tenure (check his opinions on India!!!), he'd be lucky not to be tried for treason, let alone given any honours.
The issue itself recurses back to how he can actually be Viceroy.

The thing with becoming Viceroy is that it happened to men who were already working within administrative structures or who had prestigious careers. Thesiger had previously served as Governor General of Queensland and NSW, and became V&GG following a regimental posting, Isaacs was a former Cabinet Minister who had served as Ambassador to the US and Lord Chief Justice of England, Halifax was the grandson of the former Indian Secretary and had held various Ministerial jobs after he was denied the Governor-Generalship of South Africa, Willingdon had a long career in Governorships, Linlithgrow had been chairman of the Royal Commission on Agriculture in India and had such passion he became Viceroy after declining 'lesser' postings, Wavell was commander of the Indian Army, and Mountbatten was, well, Mountbatten. So for Churchill to become Viceroy, you'd need a pre-crossing the floor PoD, and for him to have been previously holding a prestigious position that got him noticed by the Monarch and recognised as a good man for such a posting. Secretary of India in a Conservative Government would be good start, but given his views on the Indian people, this may become a problem and would only prove how unsuitable he was for such a role.

If he was to become the Duke of Marlborough early in the 20th Century (during the First World War), he may be recommended for a minor Governorship (the Governorship of New Foundland strikes me as a possibility), which would give him a foot on the ladder if he proves successful. But then, if he did get to India, given what we know about his views on Indian Nationalists, things would get ugly.
 
The issue itself recurses back to how he can actually be Viceroy.

The thing with becoming Viceroy is that it happened to men who were already working within administrative structures or who had prestigious careers. Thesiger had previously served as Governor General of Queensland and NSW, and became V&GG following a regimental posting, Isaacs was a former Cabinet Minister who had served as Ambassador to the US and Lord Chief Justice of England, Halifax was the grandson of the former Indian Secretary and had held various Ministerial jobs after he was denied the Governor-Generalship of South Africa, Willingdon had a long career in Governorships, Linlithgrow had been chairman of the Royal Commission on Agriculture in India and had such passion he became Viceroy after declining 'lesser' postings, Wavell was commander of the Indian Army, and Mountbatten was, well, Mountbatten. So for Churchill to become Viceroy, you'd need a pre-crossing the floor PoD, and for him to have been previously holding a prestigious position that got him noticed by the Monarch and recognised as a good man for such a posting. Secretary of India in a Conservative Government would be good start, but given his views on the Indian people, this may become a problem and would only prove how unsuitable he was for such a role.

If he was to become the Duke of Marlborough early in the 20th Century (during the First World War), he may be recommended for a minor Governorship (the Governorship of New Foundland strikes me as a possibility), which would give him a foot on the ladder if he proves successful. But then, if he did get to India, given what we know about his views on Indian Nationalists, things would get ugly.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I am starting a bit of research on a (probably never to be published) TL and was vaguely considering the possibility that he could be shunted off to India for various reasons which piqued my curiosity regarding plausible names.

I'm not really wedded to him getting this post yet though, but it struck me as possible given that Churchill was very passionate about India and it seemed reasonable that he may want a more direct control on affairs in India, and that the other members of the crazy-coalition government may prefer to see him busy with that instead of plotting to become PM.
 
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Lord Woodstock... ha! I can see in 1969 Woodstock festival uses his image... Churchill image becomes indelibly linked to the hippie movement and acid rock... I love it!
 
On the subject of my previous post - who would Churchill want to lead the Raj in the event that Churchill had decided on a no holds barred crushing of Congress/mutiny?

Would someone like Viscount Cranborne be an option in the 1940s or would he be too young and inexperienced for such a role?
 
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