WI: Vinland lasts

Newfoundland is a sizable island. Slightly bigger than Iceland. It has warmer summers than Iceland. Certain similarity with northern Norway.

In Iceland, the settlers found the land forested all the way to the mountains - but it was a sparse birch forest with a scattering of rowans, a few junipers but no pine or spruce whatsoever. Something that the Norse knew well from the timberline of their own mountains, and northern Norwegian coast. But this forest does not give much large and straight timber, nor does it grow back fast when cut. In a century after settlement, the Icelanders got rid of 90% of it. Then most of the rest.

Newfoundland has warmer summers. Conifer forests that do offer straight trunks and grow back better. Clearing them for pasture would have been possible, and the hardy grains of Norse - barley, oats, rye - would grow rather better than in Iceland.

Skraelings would have outnumbered the initial settlers. But the summers of Newfoundland, while warm enough for the Norse grains, are too chilly for maize. This means that the Beothuk are pure hunter-gatherers few in number and scattered far and wide. If the Norse seize and hold a small chunk of land, this directly antagonizes one small band, too few to resist, while the rest have little urgency to combine against Norse.

And the Norse can trade with Beothuk. They did coexist with the Lapp hunter-gatherers in Northern Norway. In over a millennium, the Lapps have been oppressed, but by no means exterminated.

How would an agricultural Vinland Colony develop over 11th century?
 
If Norse immigrated in numbers large enough to create a lasting colony, probably they would also have brought enough germs to decimate the Beothuk.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I think this answer it somewhat.

Iron isn't a problem in area with swamps and woods, North European rarely mined for iron, they usual used bog iron and charcoal to refine the bog iron. Beside that when settlement is establish they will grow with enourmoushaste even with a small starting population. I could see North America east of the Great Plains and north of the Deep South being majority Norse by 1492, beside that I could also see the Caribbian dominated by Metize state with Norse culture, but I think the Central and South American Native civilisations would survive (through in greatly change form and with lot of norse traits) and likely they would resisdent to most European diseases and have adopted Eurpeans animals and plant by 1492. Likely we would also see that they had adopt lot of European technology. The Great plain would likely be populated by Native and Metize nomadic horsenations.

Beside that Christianity would likely follow the Norse to America*, and we could easily imagine the Spanish would met mostly Christian nations when they travell over the sea.


*It did to Greenland
 
Just to let you know, there is his historical evidence that supports that Vinland was part of modern Massachusetts.
 
If Norse immigrated in numbers large enough to create a lasting colony, probably they would also have brought enough germs to decimate the Beothuk.
They would bring some. But the Viking populations of Iceland and Greenland were modest in size and did not have all the germs of mainland Europe. E. g. Iceland was not reached by Black Death - a later plague epidemic reached Iceland in 1402-1404.

The total Norse population of Greenland was about 3000...4000. The Western Settlement would have been just 1000 souls or so.
 
They would bring some. But the Viking populations of Iceland and Greenland were modest in size and did not have all the germs of mainland Europe. E. g. Iceland was not reached by Black Death - a later plague epidemic reached Iceland in 1402-1404.

The total Norse population of Greenland was about 3000...4000. The Western Settlement would have been just 1000 souls or so.

The Greenland settlement vanished without a trace when climate changes cut them off from the mainland in the 1400s. (It became Norwegian again when some missionaries founded a new colony in the 1700s.) The Vinlanders would have needed a substantial boost in numbers to remain viable.
 
Just to let you know, there is his historical evidence that supports that Vinland was part of modern Massachusetts.

Honestly, we don't know where exactly Vinland is located. It could be as far south as Newport, RI (cf. the Newport Tower) to as far north as Newfoundland. However, because of the archaeology at L'Anse-aux-Meadows, whilst we don't know if the Island of Newfoundland was Vinland, it's probably a safe bet to assume Vinland in Newfoundland. Most people who think Vinland was farther south follow from Adam of Bremen's account, which connects to another point - does Vinland originate from the Old Norse for "wine" (the theory taken by Adam of Bremen, which would place Vinland farther south) or the Old Norse for "pasture" (which would place Vinalnd farther north, including the Island of Newfoundland).

Getting back to the OP - the big thing here is numbers. There are multiple ways to go for numbers - ban infanticide in Iceland, for starters (but exile people from Iceland), or even use events back in Continental Scandinavia to prevent people from going to Finland and Estonia or a different outcome at the Battle of Svolder. Just remember one thing about the Beothuk: at the time that the sagas mention the events in Vinland, the Beothuk themselves were recent arrivals (having displaced the Dorset culture and effectively made the Dorset culture retreat to the high Arctic, where they were displaced by the ancestors of the modern-day Inuit), so they might feel a bit insecure.
 
does Vinland originate from the Old Norse for "wine" (the theory taken by Adam of Bremen, which would place Vinland farther south) or the Old Norse for "pasture" (which would place Vinalnd farther north, including the Island of Newfoundland).

I've read a theory that the "wine" refers to wild Newfoundland currants.
 
AFAIK "vin" refers to wild cereal (rye or other) that was found in Vinland.
vín is wine, vin is grass (or the other way around). Similar sounding words, but phonemically different in Norse/Icelandic. It is POSSIBLE that the words were confused early, but it is actually rather doubtful.

OTOH, obviously you can't grow grapes in Iceland (let alone), so sweet fermenting berries might convince Icelanders that what they'd found were grapes. Had any of those guys ever SEEN a grape? probably not.

Also, this is the Mediaeval warm period. Wild grapes would have grown further north (probably not the north tip of Nfld, I'll admit). So even if they COULD recognize a grape, they might have made brief forays a bit further south and found real grapes.
 
Paraphrased from The Far Traveler:
Walnuts have been found at L'Anse aux Meadows. The furthest north walnuts have grown is in New Brunswick - about 1000 miles south of L'Anse aux Meadows. a spinning whurl was also found made of butternut wood (which also grows south). Wild grapes grow up trees and give meaning to a line in the Greenlanders Saga about Leif Eriikson's men cutting "wine wood" as a valuable cargo item.

Locating Hop at Miramichi sounds good. Any way, it seems that the Norse may have used the term Vinland as a name for a region including Newfoundland but also including areas south.
 
The Greenland settlement vanished without a trace when climate changes cut them off from the mainland in the 1400s. (It became Norwegian again when some missionaries founded a new colony in the 1700s.) The Vinlanders would have needed a substantial boost in numbers to remain viable.
They are better off than Greenland settlers. While Greenland has little wood for firewood, construction or iron smelting, and the pastures and hayfields are marginal and easy to damage by Little Ice Age, Newfoundland would offer less marginal livelyhood. Even if the Vinland colonists suffer spiritually from lack of imported goodies, they can keep their herds surviving more easily than Greenlanders.

Eirik set out with 1000 settlers (25 shiploads), and 14 shiploads, so about 560 souls, arrived. The final carrying capacity of the habitable part of Greenland, Eastern and Western Settlement, was 3000...4000, and it was reached by 1100, I guess.

Thorfinn could find just 160 souls for his settlement. But with more habitable land in Newfoundland, and a few more ships coming from Greenland and Iceland, it could look quite possible for the Vinland Settlement to have 3000 souls by 1100, equal to Greenland - and, unlike Greenland, plenty of space to expand.
 
He may have left Iceland with nearly 1000 people but he only had 3 or 4 hundred people when he reached Greenland. His ships encountered a mysterious hafgerding wave which sank some ships and caused others to turn back. This wave may have been caused by volcanic activity.

Here is a POD:
No hafgerding wave means Erik has 1000 people instead of 300-400. Which means three times more people can go to Vineland than in OTL. Also greater crowding in Greenland will make Vineland look even more attractive.
 
How about Norse discovering Grand Banks? It alone could attract scores of settlers (Southern Newfoundland is one of those places where relatively numerous group can survive on fish alone).
 
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