WI Vichy France joins Axis after Mers-el-Kebir?

It is by no means clear that Gibralter is at risk, especially as Vichy France in the Axis precludes most of the conditions Franco set befor Spain would join the Axis, leaving Gibralter safely insulated from attack..

I was thinking of a possible attack from NA across the straights...this was ottomh, I'd have to dig up some maps to see if it were feasable. It would certainly be feasable to seriouslt degrade the rock as a usable base by bombing, IF Vichy France in NA had the planes (of course, planes defect even easier than a ship does...:)

Imagine France with a half million properly equipped men and several hundred modern aircraft in North Africa delicately urging further concessions from Hitler lest those rambunctious colonials do something drastic.

Now that would be very French!!:D:D
 

Typo

Banned
A ‘’Vichy France’’ with a half a million troops and all it’s territory (except those ceded to direct German annexation) is a major threat to Germany and would bitterly hate Hitler’s guts. Also the idea that the French whose attitude towards the Germans was characterized by a mixture of fear and hatred will suddenly turn into loyal Axis allies and embark of an anti-British/later anti-Soviet crusade with gusto is a bit dubious.

A strong France is a threat to Nazi Germany’s Pax Europa and a weak one is useless when it comes to beating Britain in the Med.

Also Vichy France in Axis = Mussolini goes apeshit. Benny the Moose hated, hated, hated! France with every fibre of his being.
That's the thing, granting western Europe at form of political independence is ultimately a threat to the western flank of Hitler's Europe and Nazi goals.
 

Typo

Banned
Because the risk of allied intervention was really high, and Spain has to gain...what exactly?
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Because the risk of allied intervention was really high, and Spain has to gain...what exactly?

A garrison town that owes its entire existence to british conquest and is otherwise on a worthless piece of rock and about two million more rebellious Morrocans, because the Rif war was so much fun already :p
 
For those unfamiliar the Rif War in Morocco lasted from 1921-1926 and required France and Spain to commit 300,000 troops to finish it.


Urban fox, also at least some of France's several million trained reservists will remain in France so creative accounting on the part of a more independent France might result in a rather larger Vichy army then Hitler agreed to. Perhaps a major public concentration as far as possible on armor and artillery, for Hitler's grand crusade against Bolshevism;), and most unfortunate French laziness about accounting and such on lesser weapons. Then one day Hitler wakes up and France has a million men back in the field and British ships rushing to bring heavy weaponry and an expeditionary force.
 
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