WI: Venice takes Ragusa, Trieste, Like, and Albania?

In essence, what if the Republic of Venice with a PoD as far back as 1200 managed to hold at one point the entire eastern Adriatic coast? How would this affect its ststus and diplomacy with its neighbors, like Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Albania, the Byzantines, Genoa, and Austria to name the largest players. How long would they be able to keep it?
 
It'd be a massive drain, counter to Venetian interests, and any power with a stake in teaching the Adriatic would be able to ravage the Venetian domains in the attempt. The coastal cories didn't exactly like being under the Serenissima, either.

I wouldn't give it more than a few years, a generation tops.
 
It'd be a massive drain, counter to Venetian interests, and any power with a stake in teaching the Adriatic would be able to ravage the Venetian domains in the attempt. The coastal cories didn't exactly like being under the Serenissima, either.

I wouldn't give it more than a few years, a generation tops.

What if there were a sufficiently strong and threatening Hungary on the other side to convince the coast that Venice is a better bet?

Only if they spend the admin points :p

It’s fine, they’ve got permanent claims so the cost goes down.
 
The Papacy and Hungary would likely come down as a hammer upon Venice in this instance. Venice will need to seek assistance from another to effective face these two, most likely, especially the Papacy in any tl pre 1306.

Innocent III already made clear to Venice, that a conquest of Dalmatia was not to be tolerated. If the papacy is allowed to remain powerful, Venice is indefinitely weakened when it comes to its domains in Terra Firma or in Dalmatia.
 
What if there were a sufficiently strong and threatening Hungary on the other side to convince the coast that Venice is a better bet?
Then the Hungarians would ravage the Venetian domains and cause a drain on Venetian funds. Land wars aren't profitable, especially for a maritime merchant republic, and any course of actions that leads to one, like expanding to a point that Venice needs to commit itself to defending against hostile land powers, would not especially be in Venetian interests.
 
Those against Venice can also go the route Trieste took and swear loyalty to the Emperor in exchange of protection.
 

Marc

Donor
It has been strongly argued by a number of historians that the two main components of the Serene Republic's decline are the rise of non-Mediterranean trading routes, and a serious geopolitical miscalculation to expand direct control into the Italian mainland - to offset their growing precarious position in the Adriatic and Eastern Med.
 
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What if there were a sufficiently strong and threatening Hungary on the other side to convince the coast that Venice is a better bet?

As the natural economic outlets of Hungary, they will always stand to gain more from it (and better conditions) than they would playing second fiddle under Venice.
 
Trieste and Albania (part of it at one point was under Venetian rule but obviously not the mountainous interior) would be the easiest. More is too much land to conquer and protect that is just begging to be seized at a moment of weakness.

Best PoD for Venice to rule all Dalmatia would be some later PoD where the Republic recovers and decades/centuries later manages to convince the other powers to let it have Dalmatia as an alternative to someone else having it. Or at least most of it, the rest Venice could opportunistically grab in a war against Hungary or whoever. This would also have Venice constructing its own national identity so it won't be annexed into Italy while keeping down any competing nationalisms in Dalmatia.
 
Then the Hungarians would ravage the Venetian domains and cause a drain on Venetian funds. Land wars aren't profitable, especially for a maritime merchant republic, and any course of actions that leads to one, like expanding to a point that Venice needs to commit itself to defending against hostile land powers, would not especially be in Venetian interests.

Those against Venice can also go the route Trieste took and swear loyalty to the Emperor in exchange of protection.

Fair points. Is there a minimum amount of coast or ports that would have a better chance of satisfying the Hungarian (and Austrian too) need for access to the Mediterranean? In later centuries Trieste became the Austrian port and Rijeka the Hungarian port, but would they have been satisfied with just those while the Venetians hold the lands in between?

Trieste and Albania (part of it at one point was under Venetian rule but obviously not the mountainous interior) would be the easiest. More is too much land to conquer and protect that is just begging to be seized at a moment of weakness.

Best PoD for Venice to rule all Dalmatia would be some later PoD where the Republic recovers and decades/centuries later manages to convince the other powers to let it have Dalmatia as an alternative to someone else having it. Or at least most of it, the rest Venice could opportunistically grab in a war against Hungary or whoever. This would also have Venice constructing its own national identity so it won't be annexed into Italy while keeping down any competing nationalisms in Dalmatia.

Dalmatia was already largely controlled by Venice OTL. The only parts that weren't were owned by Ragusa, and they weren't merged into "the lands of Dalmatia" until Austria rolled in post-Congress of Vienna.

Trieste is reasonable provided you can keep Austria at bay. As for Albania, depends on whether we're talking pre or post-Ottomans for difficulty in taking. OTL Venice held Butrint, across from Kerkyra, until its end. Before the Ottomans came in, they also held Lëzhe, Durrës, and Vlorë.
 
Oddly enough - if this a Pre-1204 PoD, then this isn't impossible. If Venice still co-ops the Crusade, we could potentially see a deal where the Romans agree to back Venice up in a war for their territories on the Adriatic as the payment of debts. That way the Venetians do have an ally to back them up against Hungary. Better than a 1204 situation.
 
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