What if the Venetian Republic ended up preventing the Ottoman Conquest of the Morea/Pelopponese? What potential butterflies would ensue, and how would this affect history up to 1815?
WI: Venice keeps Morea?
- Thread starter Shtudmuffin
- Start date
Well how long a Venetian Rule do u have in mind? In the eighteenth century Venice had already started to decline. The Venetians would have to contribute considerable resources to the Morea to keep it out of Ottoman control. However, the fall of the Morea seemed to set off a chain reaction that led to the fall of all the other Venetian territories in the region, so if the Morea can be kept then maybe the ofther islands won't fall either. However, even if Venice keeps these territories are kept, come 1796, Venice would still fall to Napoleon. Maybe, with surviving Greek territories, a Government-in-exile could be set up, in either Corfu or in the Morea.
Delvestius
Banned
*groans* you just couldn't resist couldn't you?
Of course not
This scenario is pretty difficult, though I could perhaps see the Venetians being given back Morea in the event of some sort of coalition war against the Ottomans backed by Austria and Russia. If this were the case, WW1 might be a bit earlier.
Good god man, you have a POD fifty years before he's born, and you expect OTL to occur regardless of butterflies and other changes?
If butterflies didn't result in other events occurring, and history took a generally similar course compared to OTL, I'm willing to believe that Napoleon would have been born. Whether Venice has the Morea or not probably won't affect the family lineage/life of an obscure bunch of Corsicans.
Venice might have gotten the Morea back in 1718, (just 4 years after she had lost it) at the Treaty of Passarowitz (which ended the Austro-Turkish War) had she possessed a more powerful military. The Venetian military (both land forces and navy) were in free-fall all through the later half of the 17th Cent. and through the 18th. The Morean war which had netted the Republic the Morea at the end of the 17th Cent. was really the last real gasp of Venetian military power and was only as successful as it was because The Ottomans were simultaneously fighting the Poles, the Russians, Hungary, Cossacks, the HRE, the Austrians, the Spanish, and hell, practically all of Christendom in the Great Turkish War of 1683-1699.
Venice would need a strong alliance with one of the greater European powers to have a chance to continue to hold onto the Morea through the 18th Century. She simply no longer had the power to independently retain an overseas empire.
Venice would need a strong alliance with one of the greater European powers to have a chance to continue to hold onto the Morea through the 18th Century. She simply no longer had the power to independently retain an overseas empire.
Wolfpaw
Banned
We need to find the Venetian, Greek, and Turkish versions of that phrase, ASAP.Well, for one thing, the Ottomans SHALL! NOT!! PAAASSSSSSS!!!
Actually, suppose Venice had retaken Crete during the war, and not Morea. It would have been more defensible...
From some theories, the Venetian doge blinking differently would mean that.
But more to the point, butterflies by their nature will result in "other events occurring" - Venice having the Morea will not appear in a vacuum.
The Venetians would have cried, "San Marco!" Italian would be something like
"Ottomani non passerà!"
Wolfpaw
Banned
Wouldn't they probably call them "Turchi"?
I also love how old European countries used to just howl the names of their patron saints before plunging into the fray. "Santiago!" "San Marco!" "For God and Saint George!"
It's an interesting thought and one wonders why they didn't take more of a stab. There were Venetian outposts on Crete until the end of the Turko-Venetian War in 1718.
Razgriz 2K9
Banned
Actually, no it would not. A Morea that isn't in Ottoman hands would probably be a dangerous threat to their control over the rest of Greece. Personally, I honestly believe that unless Venice undergoes a Napoleonic-esque style military reform, there's absolutely no way they'll be able to hold Morea.
Then again, I'm only guessing, since I really don't think they would've kept Morea regardless.
Then again, I'm only guessing, since I really don't think they would've kept Morea regardless.
I tend to agree, but I suggested an arrangement as an alternative precisely because I see no military option being successful for the Republic.
Not saying it's not a stretch, though; it very much seems like one. But the best way to avoid a war is to make it unprofitable. If the Turks can be convinced the Venetians will keep Morea in line and they'll make more money off leaving it alone than occupying it, that's the kind of deal that appeals to anyone. But then again, why would Venice want to cling to it at such a price?
Not saying it's not a stretch, though; it very much seems like one. But the best way to avoid a war is to make it unprofitable. If the Turks can be convinced the Venetians will keep Morea in line and they'll make more money off leaving it alone than occupying it, that's the kind of deal that appeals to anyone. But then again, why would Venice want to cling to it at such a price?