WI Vandals managed to set foot in Greece in 468 AD?

In 468, Gaiseric King of the Vandals attempted to conquer Mani (that is southern Pelopones) with the purpose of using it as a base to raid, conquer Peloponnese and harass the Eastern Roman Empire. Gaiseric tried to land his fleet at Kenipolis, but as his army disembarked the inhabitants of the town attacked the Vandals and made them retreat after heavy casualties.
WI Vandals were successfull in capturing Peloponese? Would Western Roman Empire helped them in secret in order to get rid of them? How would the Eastern Roman Empire reacts to such an invasion? Any thoughts?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniots#cite_note-Fermor120-16
 

Philip

Donor
Wasn't this just after the horrendous expedition of Basilscus and Marcellinus? Was the Western Empire in any position to offer aid?
 
You could have the Vandals just try to establish a foothold in Crete or the Aegean Islands instead of attempting to conquer the Pelopennese. With the navies of both Roman empires decimated, Geiseric and his heirs could have just worn them down further with repeated seaborne raids.
 
You could have the Vandals just try to establish a foothold in Crete or the Aegean Islands instead of attempting to conquer the Pelopennese. With the navies of both Roman empires decimated, Geiseric and his heirs could have just worn them down further with repeated seaborne raids.

Thats a good idea... with some naval bases in Crete and the Cyclades islands and perhaps Peloponese Geiseric would have disrupted the grain supply from Egypt to Constantinople... Leo I would have to either gather a new force and kick them out of Greece or to come to terms with Geiseric if ERE faces famine...
 
Thats a good idea... with some naval bases in Crete and the Cyclades islands and perhaps Peloponese Geiseric would have disrupted the grain supply from Egypt to Constantinople... Leo I would have to either gather a new force and kick them out of Greece or to come to terms with Geiseric if ERE faces famine...

In Geiserics time, the population base of the Vandals is still too small, so they really have to choose their battles and use their navy wisely. By hyjacking or siphoning off the grain supply to Constaninople from Egypt could give them a boost in the long-run. If they retain their naval dominance in the Mediterranean, they could exert a limited degree of economic influence over the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, and even the Eastern Romans.
 
In Geiserics time, the population base of the Vandals is still too small, so they really have to choose their battles and use their navy wisely. By hyjacking or siphoning off the grain supply to Constaninople from Egypt could give them a boost in the long-run. If they retain their naval dominance in the Mediterranean, they could exert a limited degree of economic influence over the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, and even the Eastern Romans.

How plausible it is that Leo I gathers another force (with a more competent General this time) and deals with Vandals once and for all? Disrupting the grain supply to Constantinople would have lead to revolt and destabilse ERE...
 
How plausible it is that Leo I gathers another force (with a more competent General this time) and deals with Vandals once and for all? Disrupting the grain supply to Constantinople would have lead to revolt and destabilse ERE...

Leo poured a great deal of men and money into that expedition 468 CE, and due to its failure, the Eastern Romans weren't up to the attempt for another sixty-six years. Definately not in Emperor Leo's lifetime.

If Geiseric managed to establish a naval presence in the eastern Mediterranean after saving his kingdom, him and his heirs could have followed up their success by denying the Byzantines their grain shipments.
I also think that the law of succession in the Vandal Kingdom should have been changed, where the sons and not simply the oldest male member of the royal family should have been first in line to the throne. And a certain rapport could have been established with the Vandals fellow Arians, the Visigoths.
 
If the Vandal Kingdom maintains itself in Africa, Sicily, and uses it naval bases in the Aegean Sea to confiscate the grain ships from Egypt to Constantinople, they could just about impose their will on all the other states around the Mediterranean. They could experience a steady stream of immigration to their territories from famine-stricken areas in Spain, Gaul, Italy, and Greece. The powerful Vandal Kingdom in North Africa could allow itself to become a refuge for Arian Christians from the Eastern Roman Empire.
 
In 468, Gaiseric King of the Vandals attempted to conquer Mani (that is southern Pelopones) with the purpose of using it as a base to raid, conquer Peloponnese and harass the Eastern Roman Empire. Gaiseric tried to land his fleet at Kenipolis, but as his army disembarked the inhabitants of the town attacked the Vandals and made them retreat after heavy casualties.
WI Vandals were successfull in capturing Peloponese? Would Western Roman Empire helped them in secret in order to get rid of them? How would the Eastern Roman Empire reacts to such an invasion? Any thoughts?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniots#cite_note-Fermor120-16

I think there's someone from Mani stuffing that Wikipedia article full of glories that are somewhat imaginary. I doubt the entire Vandal army landed at Mani only to be repulsed by the glorious valor of the Maniotes. Likewise, it was autonomous in the early modern period to the 19th c because it was not worth the effort of conquering and administering, not because of the magic powers of the inhabitants.
 
I think there's someone from Mani stuffing that Wikipedia article full of glories that are somewhat imaginary. I doubt the entire Vandal army landed at Mani only to be repulsed by the glorious valor of the Maniotes. Likewise, it was autonomous in the early modern period to the 19th c because it was not worth the effort of conquering and administering, not because of the magic powers of the inhabitants.

Imaginary? I dont think the battle of Verga was imaginary in 1826 in which 7000 cavalrymen defeated by 2000 maniots... Nor battle of Dyro where 1500 egyptians were beaten by elders and women with harvesting tools... Nor the battle of Polytsaravo where 6000 egyptians were defeated and maniots took only 9 losses... My ancestors fought there...
Anyway back to the topic now... A strong Vandal Kingdom controlling the grain flow into Mediteranean would have played the role of the "Kingmaker" for both Empires i guess...
 
I think there's someone from Mani stuffing that Wikipedia article full of glories that are somewhat imaginary. I doubt the entire Vandal army landed at Mani only to be repulsed by the glorious valor of the Maniotes. Likewise, it was autonomous in the early modern period to the 19th c because it was not worth the effort of conquering and administering, not because of the magic powers of the inhabitants.

Imaginary? I dont think the battle of Verga was imaginary in 1826 in which 7000 cavalrymen defeated by 2000 maniots... Nor battle of Dyro where 1500 egyptians were beaten by elders and women with harvesting tools... Nor the battle of Polytsaravo where 6000 egyptians were defeated and maniots took only 9 losses... My ancestors fought there...
Anyway back to the topic now... A strong Vandal Kingdom controlling the grain flow into Mediteranean would have played the role of the "Kingmaker" for both Empires i guess...
 
Imaginary? I dont think the battle of Verga was imaginary in 1826 in which 7000 cavalrymen defeated by 2000 maniots... Nor battle of Dyro where 1500 egyptians were beaten by elders and women with harvesting tools... Nor the battle of Polytsaravo where 6000 egyptians were defeated and maniots took only 9 losses... My ancestors fought there...
Anyway back to the topic now... A strong Vandal Kingdom controlling the grain flow into Mediteranean would have played the role of the "Kingmaker" for both Empires i guess...


I think at the end, only the Eastern Empire would still be around. Geiseric was still alive when the Scirian Magister Militum Odoacer deposed of the last western Emperor, Romulus Augustulus, in 476 CE. If the Vandals were to properly exploit their naval advantage, mounting famines in the east could have allowed them to intervene in any civil wars that may occur. Egypt could end up as a protectorate of the growing Vandal Empire. The territory of the Roman/Byzantines could end being picked apart by the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and the Sassanid Persians.
 
The Vandals may have to secure the loyalty of the Berber clans living around their kingdom in North Africa. To improve the defences or security on the islands of Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica, they might post a number of Berber auxilliaries, offering land grants and other priveliages. With the grain supply of the Mediterranean in their control, the Germano-Latin element of the population could be enhanced by a steady stream of migrants from, Greece, Italy, and Spain. If the Vandals survive beyond the Sixth Century, what would be the chances of the Islamic Caliphate riding roughshod through Africa? Arianism going strong in the south and west, Trinitarianism in the north, and Islam in the east.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
Imaginary? I dont think the battle of Verga was imaginary in 1826 in which 7000 cavalrymen defeated by 2000 maniots... Nor battle of Dyro where 1500 egyptians were beaten by elders and women with harvesting tools... Nor the battle of Polytsaravo where 6000 egyptians were defeated and maniots took only 9 losses... My ancestors fought there...

Okayyyyyyyy.......... Let me guess, this is also from Wikipedia?

These are the same people that the Philhellenes changed their beliefs about. The Philhellenes thought that they would fight with the courage of the ancient Greeks, but they saw that they only wanted to preserve their ability to be bandits.

You should probably pick up a well-researched, neutral book about the Greek War of Independence. Real history comes from books, not Wikipedia.

EDIT: Not to sound rude, but you almost sound like the average poster at TWCenter.net.
 
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Oral tradition tends to exagterrate things ALOT. Look, you are one of my favorite posters here, but you are tend to believe too much legend and tend to exagterrate your nation.

I am not the only one who exaggerates my nation... other posters tend to do that way much bigger than i do for their nations... And i believe the testimony of eye witnesses more than mere books...
P.S. my sources is not only wikipedia... i do have a large library to consult if i need something...
 
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