WI USSR gives Su15 to the NVAF in 67

The Su15 original model was in service and would have been potentially a much more capable interceptor than the stripped down MiG21PF the Vietnamese got. They would still get the same MiGs as in OTL, but a small number of Su15 would be deployed to intercept the B52s. Since the PVO was looking for an improved model at the time, that emerged as the Su15TM, and developing the MiG25P, security issues should be manageable.
At the risk of this turning into another red vs blue debate, how would the Su15 fare?
 
Somehow, I think that if(and that's a big if) the URSS decided to send a PVO-issue aircraft to Vietnam, it would be the Su-9/11, not the Su-15(even early models; they have to replace the above-mentioned Fishpots and the Yak-28s, after all).

Still, let's go with the OP. They would have done better(better radar, acceleration and climb rate, as well as missiles), although not much better. Their AA-3 missiles would be fired from further out(no Su-15 shot down by B-52 tailgunners), but I don't trust BVR missiles of that generation(whichever nationality they may be), and once the two AA-3s are fired, you're out of the fight.

It's quite possible the introduction of Su-15s in the Vietnam theatre would mean bomber escort duties for F-4 Phantoms. If those two meet, the outcome isn't favourable to the Su-15s.
 
Missiles, outcomes, etc

The Su11 was only built in very small numbers, the Su9 was armed with obsolete missiles and the Yak28P handled too differently from the MiG21 for easy pilot training. So if the Russians really wanted to help, the Su15 would be the logic choice. Along with large numbers of MiG19SF for dogfighting. The R98R/T was designed specifically to shoot down Bombers. Like all missiles of that type and era, it would have performed poorly against agile fighters, but all test data indicates that against bombers it would have scored much better. The Su15 would have been doing exactly what they had been designed for, and could have had MiG21 and MiG19 keeping the escorts busy. If the US wanted to provide escort fighters, wouldn't the F106 do a better job? In those pre F4E days the darts used to beat the phantoms 3 to 1 in dissimilar training exercises.
 
Su-15 was considered too sophisticated to give away. It's use would require Soviet operators. It's primary mission would be against B-52s, which operated in SAM zones, meaning that Russian pilots would be in danger of friendly fire fatalities, unless SAM defenses were shut down. There wouldn't be enough gained to warrant it's use. There would be even less to be gained by operating it against any other targets, except negative lessons.
 
SAMs

There were soviet advisors there anyway. The Su15 was not that sophisticated, it still only had the Oryol radar rather than the much better taifoon being developed for the definitive TM. Giving them to the Vietnamese in 67 would require a lot of goodwill, and doing it in 71 would be easier. But deploying them in 67 would give them the best chances. Co-ordinating SAMs and interceptors in a GCI environment is not that hard, and it was done by the VPAF who used both MiGs and SAMs to counter B52 raids in 72. With longer ranged missiles it's a lot easier. Besides, by 72 there was talking of ramming among VPAF force pilots, so they wouldn't be too afraid of friendly fire chances.
 
Does the Soviet Union wish to put their front line bomber defense to the test on the world stage? Maybe against Korean airliners.
 
OTL, no...

In the OTL no, but they did deploy their S75 missiles, at the time still very much a front line weapon. But since the chances of a Su15 or it's missiles being caught by the US were virtually nil, operating as they would be over friendly territory, and since the aircraft and it's weapons were in the process of being replaced anyway, its not that far fetched. In retrospect, giving their non European allies only second rate equipment did nothing good for them. We're not talking of handing the VPAF early production MiG25P, in 72, just of a transitional, stopgap interceptor that was built in numbers while waiting something better...
 
KAL

Does the Soviet Union wish to put their front line bomber defense to the test on the world stage? Maybe against Korean airliners.

Those Airliners did break a few international rules, a lot more than the Iranian liner the Vincennes shot down...
Su15 were being tested against Turkish AF intruders, also...

I agree that deploying them in Vietnam in 67 would be very unlikely, and I used that date because the type was in PVO service that year and because it would make the airwar over Vietnam a lot more interesting. Su11 would be more likely at that time, but that type was never built in large numbers. By 72 the Su15 was old enough to be a credible export in the face of the large B52 offensive. Politics aside, I was more interested in the what could they do than the would they be there question...
 

Clipper747

Banned
KAL 007 didn't break any rules since the pilots were unaware they were off course and flying over Soviet airspace.
 
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