WI: USSR achieves food autarky in 1950s?

And Poland was never a significant wheat producer (the main export of Tsarist Russia). Finland, for obvious reasons, has never been a major food producer, not really able to feed its population.

It should tell you something then, when I say that the farms of Poland and Finland were relatively fertile.

The population growth of the Soviet Union was not especially great, compared with most other developing countries

In most developing countries people didn't eat as much meat per capita as Soviet citizens and most were in much friendlier climatic zones.

In India or China, artificial fertilizers and irrigation enabled farmers to raise at least one more crop in a year, in some areas an extra two crops a year.

Further, pesticides and modern irrigation enabled farmers in the developing world to abandon crop varieties that were more drought and pest resistant and adopt higher yielding (but more fragile) varieties.

In the Soviet Union, they had already been growing the highest yielding wheat variety since before there were Romanovs on the throne, and no matter how much fertilizer was used you couldn't get an extra growing season out of the short warm months.

fasquardon
 
You squirm to avoid admitting it was communism that ruined Soviet agriculture. Not kulaks, not hoarders, not trockyist-tsarist conspiracy, not western saboteurs, and not weather. Just communism.

Any economic system could have ruined Soviet agriculture if the state was the one that destroyed incentive. Stop blaming the economic system.
 

Alcsentre Calanice

Gone Fishin'
Presumably, with some somewhat simple PODs, most of which would have do with ignoring Lysenko's nonsense, the Soviet Union could achieve agricultural production levels that could feed it's domestic populace without the need to import by the late 50s.

The Soviet Union was a net grain exporter in the 50s, so it had already achieved food autarky.
 
Finland, for obvious reasons, has never been a major food producer, not really able to feed its population.
On the contrary: Finland achieved food self-sufficiency in 1950s, as a result of resettlement of refugees from Isthmus and other territories annexed by the USSR to new homestead-type small farms. Mechanization and new fertilizers further improved harvests, combined with government subsidies for farmers.

As a result of these factors, by early 1980s the Finnish agricultural sector annually produced c. 50 million kg of beef, 15 million kg of butter and 25 million kg of eggs for export, mainly to Soviet markets.
 

Dementor

Banned
On the contrary: Finland achieved food self-sufficiency in 1950s, as a result of resettlement of refugees from Isthmus and other territories annexed by the USSR to new homestead-type small farms. Mechanization and new fertilizers further improved harvests, combined with government subsidies for farmers.

As a result of these factors, by early 1980s the Finnish agricultural sector annually produced c. 50 million kg of beef, 15 million kg of butter and 25 million kg of eggs for export, mainly to Soviet markets.
I admit that I didn't know that. Though I'm surprised that Finland was able to improve agriculture so much when you consider the loss of the best farmland it had in Karelia.

In case, Finland until recently produced little wheat, so the country not being part of the Soviet Union can't be a factor in wheat production, which was the main export.
 
Resurrect and expand the ЛПХ (household plots) at the expense of collectivized farmland
this is something I had wondered about, something I call the "Red Storm Rising" scenario, because Clancy mentioned it in that book. I've often wondered if it was true...
 
Prior to WWI and the Revolution, Russia was a net exported of significant quantities of grain without causing problems internally - there was enough to feed itself and export as well. The twenty years after the revolution saw the collectivization of agriculture including breakup of estates initially given to peasants then collectivized, then the purges of Kulaks and the Holodomor in the Ukraine. All of this put the Soviet Union in a hole as far as agriculture/food was concerned which is not just grain but also vegetables, poultry, meat and other livestock. WWII trashed a good deal of the most productive land in the USSR, as well as killing a significant proportion of the agricultural workforce in those places.

Sure, by the mid-1950s the USSR was exporting some grain, but was that at the expense of the Soviet population, done to prop up WP satellites. After all hungry Soviet citizens were easier to control than hungry citizens in occupied countries. There is more to food autarky than grain/bread. Protein (fish/meat/poultry), vegetables, dairy products, some fruit, all are part of a balanced diet not just the calories you get from black bread. While grass fed/free range meat and poultry is the rage these days, and I admit certainly tastier and probably healthier, producing quantities requires using grain for feed. Even pastured dairy cows have crop supplemented feed in the winter, whether hay or corn or other.

The reality is that communism as a social/economic system doesn't work for "real" people. There will always be a few Stakhanovites, just as there will always be Albert Schweitzers and Mother Theresas, but without real incentives folks simply won't work any harder than they have to. A popular saying in the USSR was "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work". This is just as true for farmers as it is for factory workers. Pretty much every aspect of the Soviet system was underperforming and had quality control issues, compared with western societies. Look at the productivity data of collective farms compared to the private patches kolkhozniks were allowed either for personal use or sale.

As long as the "system" remains the same in the USSR, true food autarky will be difficult if not impossible, and with the devastation of WWII on top of the self inflicted wounds of the 20s and 30s, expecting this by the 1950s is ASB.
 
Mmmm. Nope.

State introduced an economic system that ruined incentive.

On the contrary, communism as an economic system did not ruin incentives at all. It was the state that introduced measures which, if applied to any system, would have ruined incentives.

It does not matter who owns the means of production, be it the state, the family, the community, or the state. As long as there is the incentive and the lack of market distortions, things should function properly.
 
On the contrary: Finland achieved food self-sufficiency in 1950s, as a result of resettlement of refugees from Isthmus and other territories annexed by the USSR to new homestead-type small farms. Mechanization and new fertilizers further improved harvests, combined with government subsidies for farmers.

As a result of these factors, by early 1980s the Finnish agricultural sector annually produced c. 50 million kg of beef, 15 million kg of butter and 25 million kg of eggs for export, mainly to Soviet markets.

Quite. In the Kekkonen era, one of the major problems of the Finnish agricultural sector was in fact the overproduction of some goods, like butter. There was often talk of the "butter mountain" as a national problem, and Finland was happy if it could be dumped to the Soviet market.

A cartoon by Kari Suomalainen from 1968.

voivuori.jpg


Kekkonen: We know that the famous Danish smorgasbord includes many kinds of delicacies.

The Danish guest: Say, what do you put on sandwiches here in Finland then?

Kekkonen: BUTTER!

 
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Prior to WWI and the Revolution, Russia was a net exported of significant quantities of grain without causing problems internally - there was enough to feed itself and export as well. The twenty years after the revolution saw the collectivization of agriculture including breakup of estates initially given to peasants then collectivized, then the purges of Kulaks and the Holodomor in the Ukraine. All of this put the Soviet Union in a hole as far as agriculture/food was concerned which is not just grain but also vegetables, poultry, meat and other livestock. WWII trashed a good deal of the most productive land in the USSR, as well as killing a significant proportion of the agricultural workforce in those places.

Sure, by the mid-1950s the USSR was exporting some grain, but was that at the expense of the Soviet population, done to prop up WP satellites. After all hungry Soviet citizens were easier to control than hungry citizens in occupied countries. There is more to food autarky than grain/bread. Protein (fish/meat/poultry), vegetables, dairy products, some fruit, all are part of a balanced diet not just the calories you get from black bread. While grass fed/free range meat and poultry is the rage these days, and I admit certainly tastier and probably healthier, producing quantities requires using grain for feed. Even pastured dairy cows have crop supplemented feed in the winter, whether hay or corn or other.

The reality is that communism as a social/economic system doesn't work for "real" people. There will always be a few Stakhanovites, just as there will always be Albert Schweitzers and Mother Theresas, but without real incentives folks simply won't work any harder than they have to. A popular saying in the USSR was "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work". This is just as true for farmers as it is for factory workers. Pretty much every aspect of the Soviet system was underperforming and had quality control issues, compared with western societies. Look at the productivity data of collective farms compared to the private patches kolkhozniks were allowed either for personal use or sale.

As long as the "system" remains the same in the USSR, true food autarky will be difficult if not impossible, and with the devastation of WWII on top of the self inflicted wounds of the 20s and 30s, expecting this by the 1950s is ASB.



The Russian Empire had a devastating famine in the 1890s where half a million people died. The Tsarist system exported grain while its subjects starved.
 

marathag

Banned
As said above - have Lyssenko run over by a bus. Two times. The damage he did to the USSR agriculture was huge. He was a Stalin-purge by himself (in the sense of wrecking science for decades). He promised whopping results with deeply flawed theories.

Always though it would make an interesting TL where Henry Wallace, terrible politician and excellent Ag scientist, was swapped with Lysenko
 
Always though it would make an interesting TL where Henry Wallace, terrible politician and excellent Ag scientist, was swapped with Lysenko

That could be... Interesting. I suspect he'd end up in a Gulag pretty quick though - Wallace was unpopular enough in America for speaking his mind. In Stalinist Soviet Union that would be fatal.

fasquardon
 
I admit that I didn't know that. Though I'm surprised that Finland was able to improve agriculture so much when you consider the loss of the best farmland it had in Karelia.
In case, Finland until recently produced little wheat, so the country not being part of the Soviet Union can't be a factor in wheat production, which was the main export.
Here are the Finnish annual crop stats (in English) from late Cold War years onwards: http://stat.luke.fi/en/crop-production-statistics
They are relevant for the OP in the sense that they show what can be achieved at Nordic latitudes with modern agricultural methods. Also worth of note is that (just like DrakonFin pointed out above) the modern stats are often a pale shadow of the pre-EU era agricultural production, that was achieved due a combination of lucrative Soviet markets and dedicated government support.
 

Dementor

Banned
Here are the Finnish annual crop stats (in English) from late Cold War years onwards: http://stat.luke.fi/en/crop-production-statistics
They are relevant for the OP in the sense that they show what can be achieved at Nordic latitudes with modern agricultural methods. Also worth of note is that (just like DrakonFin pointed out above) the modern stats are often a pale shadow of the pre-EU era agricultural production, that was achieved due a combination of lucrative Soviet markets and dedicated government support.
Thanks, though I already saw the stats here. What I found interesting is the rise of wheat production in the last twenty years. Is it perhaps explained by a warmer climate?
 
Thanks, though I already saw the stats here. What I found interesting is the rise of wheat production in the last twenty years. Is it perhaps explained by a warmer climate?
Partially the changing climate is affecting the situation and available cultivated area of many crops in the long run (https://ilmasto-opas.fi/ilocms-port...05dc4915/peltoviljelyn-mahdollisuudet-iso.png).

Yet the more recent changes after 1995 reflect both changes in Finnish domestic markets and the wider impact of market forces within the Schengen Area. As large farms now often sell their harvests directly to international markets for the highest bidder, wheat has become more popular due growing global demand that lead to higher profits per hectar. Some crops, like rapeseed, are rising in popularity due biofuel production, whereas broad (fava) beans rose from practically nothing to over 50 million kg of annual harvest in a span of five years as a result of growing popularity of new types of bean products.

One can only wonder what the country and the agricultural sector would look like today if the Soviet agriculture would have followed a more efficient route suggested in the OP, and as a result the Finnish agricultural sector would have been forced to adapt and compete with Western agricultural production half a century earlier than in OTL.
 
Here are the Finnish annual crop stats (in English) from late Cold War years onwards: http://stat.luke.fi/en/crop-production-statistics

Worth remembering that Finland has a wetter and less extreme climate than most of the USSR's farmland due to being closer to the sea.

Also, not all crops were rising, some, like hay production and sugar beets fall quite significantly.

Still, those are very interesting numbers. I'd love to see what the trends in fertilizer and pesticide use have been. When I did a quick look for numbers on those, I did find something else interesting: http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/finland/indicator/AG.LND.ARBL.ZS

The rise in hectares farmed after 1996 will explain some of the increase in production since '96, but even with that, the % of Finland used for arable farming is less in 2013 than it was in 1980, land input has actually shrunk over the whole 1980-2013 period.

fasquardon
 
Worth remembering that Finland has a wetter and less extreme climate than most of the USSR's farmland due to being closer to the sea.
Well, Finland from North-to-South axis is as long as the distance between the Mediterranean and the North Sea - or in the case of Soviet Union, from Sevastopol to Kaluga. And while the average rain levels are better than in continental USSR, the somewhat favourable conditions for agriculture are geographically limited to southern half of the country, with 85% of the country at the subartic climate zone.

Thus, while certainly far better suited for agriculture than spots like Arkhangelsk, Finland is geographically at a disadvantage when comparing the overall agricultural conditions prevailing in the majority parts of European USSR.

Also, not all crops were rising, some, like hay production and sugar beets fall quite significantly.
You are seeing the results of a major economical change in Finnish agriculture as a result of EU membership and the disappearance of Soviet markets.
Few examples of this change: the number of cows, the rise and fall of Finnish pork industry, and the transfer towards the cultivation of broilers.

I'd love to see what the trends in fertilizer and pesticide use have been.
MA3_lannoitteet.gif

Kalium = potassium
Fosfori = phosphorus
Typpi = Nitrogen

A) Total amount of kg/ha for chemical fertilizers.
B) Excess of nutrient balance per kg/ha for nitrogen and phosphorus.

Now, these are certainly interesting stats. After the peak of 1990 the average amount of chemical fertilizers used per hectar declined from 1990 to 2013 to a total amount of 55%, with phosphorus-based fertilizers being cut back over 80%. At the same time the excess of nutrient balance has also declined substantially. The nitrogen balance of less than 50kg per hectar is close to EU-wide average.

Here are the pesticide figures. Here the usage nearly triples from 1960s to 1970s (part of a global trend), hitting the peak on 1980 and then starting a steady decline as a part of the wider agricultural changes in the 1990s.

When I did a quick look for numbers on those, I did find something else interesting
The rise in hectares farmed after 1996 will explain some of the increase in production since '96, but even with that, the % of Finland used for arable farming is less in 2013 than it was in 1980, land input has actually shrunk over the whole 1980-2013 period.

This is indeed interesting. A not insignificant amount of the best farmland at the southernmost end of the country has been sold for urban development and used for housing, while the size of an average farm has grown from the small homestead-type family farm to larger farms that cultivate land areas larger than 100ha. Yet this is only a partial explanation.

As a summary: the Finnish example shows that climate and available resources are not the factors hindering a TTL with a Soviet agricultural boom, should the Soviet regime turn this objective into a priourity, and follow different agricultural policies than OTL.
 
This is indeed interesting. A not insignificant amount of the best farmland at the southernmost end of the country has been sold for urban development and used for housing, while the size of an average farm has grown from the small homestead-type family farm to larger farms that cultivate land areas larger than 100ha. Yet this is only a partial explanation.

We need to also take into account afforestation. Between 1969 (when the process was started) and 2000, circa 230 000 hectares of farmland was afforested in Finland, with peaks in the early 70s and early 90s. That alone accounts, I believe, for a significant part of the decrease in farmland - the number corresponds to about 10% of all current arable land in Finland. Indeed when we look at the graph in the link @fasquardon posted, we can see the two peaks there.

Famously Finland was a nation where at the turn of the 60s and 70s the government almost overnight moved from giving out money for clearing forests into farmland to financially supporting turning farmland into forest.
 
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Presumably, with some somewhat simple PODs, most of which would have do with ignoring Lysenko's nonsense, the Soviet Union could achieve agricultural production levels that could feed it's domestic populace without the need to import by the late 50s.

The question I have is if this did happen, what effect would this have on the Soviet economy long term?
If it could become a net-exporter of foodstuffs, what effect would this have on western economies?

I avoided this thread because I despaired of anything good. I accept that the Communist system failed to motivate the farm workers to be as productive with what they had as Western capitalist landowners are. And that Soviet land was not all that good--not the worst and there was a lot of it, but like someone upthread said, like North Dakota on the verge of a dust bowl. And that some of Khrushchev's schemes did considerable harm due to lack of environmentalist insight and lack of effective internal political feedback to put the brakes on what was not working.

Put all that together and the POD seems pretty Utopian, so why look?

Now I see this OP. Skimming it, I took it to mean you had done some studying of the matter and that there are authoritative sources that outline how Russia (maybe with the help of other lands, like fining sustainable ways to farm more of Kazakstan or some other 'stans, or even growing a lot in Siberia) could technically have done it, and others or your own reasoning showing how it could have been done in a fashion suitable to Bolshevik ideology that still gives the farmers the incentives to deliver. And that you'd be pulling out your research and evidence to address in thread criticisms.

Now reading again more carefully, having seen quite a few caveats posters have offered reinforcing my initial pessimism, I see that you start with "Presumably." Yes, Lysenko falling down a well might have been a help, but it was after all Stalin who liked what he had to say, and presumably was looking around for someone who would say what he wanted to hear.

As also pointed out, the USSR generally did grow enough to give the populace a sustainable diet. Just not the sort of food they wanted to eat; they'd have to find ways to make more vegetarian/grain based meals both balanced nutrition and tasty instead of trying to treat the populace to more meat. Makes me wonder what switching everyone from red meat to mostly chicken might have accomplished.

So anyway---why "presumably?" just because Russia is big? Yes, but it is far north and inland on the biggest continent on Earth, which is to say desiccated! Why else would we presume the Soviets would be anything but hand to mouth? Another poster points out they used to export grain under the Tsars, and another that those exports coincided with famines--if Stalin didn't care about the fates of peasants, neither did the Romanovs.

I think that exploiting the land capitalist style surely would have resulted in better production but for whom? Who would have the money, or other goods the farmers would regard as being good enough to substitute for money, to pay on the scale needed to motivate superior production? Soviet rubles are useless unless the Soviet economy as a whole can produce a sufficient mass of consumer as well as capital goods to exchange for it.

Anyway the Bolsheviks most certainly would not like the prospect of the countryside being run capitalistically. It would be reneging on Lenins's promise of land and bread; no bread for the city industry workers who were the core demographic of Bolshevik support, no land for most peasants who would be squeezed out of effective ownership and control by rationalizing successful farmers, just a fraction of the agrarian demographic and the least friendly to Bolshevism. Maybe if the Bolsheviks had partnered more resignedly with the agrarian Social Revolutionaries, which was technically Kerensky's party by the way though I don't think he was accurately representative of their interests. But they were deep rivals, and the countryside interests would deadlock the urban industrial interests, so they cut through by taking over from the SRs.

Lenin was not "OK" with small scale capitalism. Neither were any leading Bolsheviks nor most of their rank and file who'd survived the Civil War (with much decimation). They launched NEP in sheer desperation. It looks good to liberal westerners, but awful to the Bolsheviks--a slap in their own faces to see chic little shops for people who had money opening up while the workers went hungry. A sop to the very kinds of people they swore to turn out and apparently if they could kill in vengeance for their greedy squeezing under the old order--now it should be their turn to starve but look at them, getting rich again! They hated NEP and the people it empowered and the fact that Western critics were mollified by it was just another stroke against it.

So too in the countryside. In the country, restoration of peace enabled farmers to grow more crops and live better than they had--ever really. Once again, the sacrifices of Red Workers turn to someone else's benefit and the Bolsheviks were turning even redder with envy. The farms, especially larger consolidated farms controlling the hired labor of less capable peasants who alienated control of their land for wages--meagre wages but better than they could do on their own--could produce plenty of food, but what did the city Soviets propose to give them for it? To make the consumer goods the countryside wanted on a scale they would judge fair versus the bumper crops and other foods they could offer would not be possible for Soviet industry damaged by the Civil War and with the cadres of the most loyal and intelligent experienced workers lying in graves for the most part they lacked expertise to rebuild as well. (POD--avoid the war, maybe by cutting a deal with the SRs early on if Lenin could ever stomach that, minimize the harm the foreign backed Whites could do with combined worker-peasant CPSU /SR armies, fewer defections of moderates to the White side--minimize the time wasted, the Red cadre lives lost, the generalized damage and sabotage and just maybe the Red controlled industries might under some sort of clever socialist organization delivered enough of the goods the farmers wanted to keep them happy and legitimately buy the food the workers needed. Perhaps).

The solution was political and terroristic of course--"simply" impose collective organization on the peasants and compel them to raise the food needed. With that decision regarded as inevitable, it was inevitable Soviet food production would become inefficient. It might not have been necessary to define adequately socialist countryside in such an extreme way, and it might have been possible to find a semi-market based solution that worked well enough for the USSR to still call itself socialist and hold out the hope that industrial labor and its rewards would be handled on a truly communistic basis, and shared with the countryside on terms the city could regard as reasonable or even favorable. But the Bolsheviks had little patience with revisionist shilly shallying around with markets, and systems that let some private owners grow rich while the majority of farm workers lived dependency on their handouts. This is not what they would promise the farm workers of the developed world and it would not inspire them to join a global Red revolution.

So--what are the relatively "easy" reforms that post-Stalin, or even with him, and by avoiding Lysenko, the Soviet authorities could come up with to encourage and entice better productivity from the marginal land? Having worked harder to produce more food what is the reward the country folk could expect for their benefit and how to avoid it producing a class of landed millionaires keenly interested in privatizing Soviet industry maybe willing to cut a deal with foreign invaders to accomplish this?

To what degree could Soviet industry, producing tractors or fertilizers or what have you, not to mention consumer goods desired in the country, enable higher yields in a sustainable manner, and again, why and how should Russian peasants, the stepchild of Lenin's favored urban proletariat, learn to use the higher tech and how do they benefit from it? OTl the USSR kept a higher percentage of people on the land than western developed nations did, but even so legions of peasants flocked to the cities and mines and new plant sites to become industrial workers--although they often managed to get a little plot of land and work the hell out of it, growing vegetables for themselves, raising chickens, and selling their surplus their neighbors--without this overtime work and side market, Soviet cities often would fall short of basic nutrition. Had that kind of intensive labor been done on the collective farms, the nation would be rich in food indeed! The more successful mechanization and other industrial type investments were, the fewer countryside farm workers would be needed. Who stays, who goes?

Before the question you focus on--what will the Soviet authorities do with the food surplus "presumed" to be available by say 1960 at the latest--can be asked, the industrial sector must first pick up to provide the agricultural sector the inputs and consumer goods it needs; if they can do that, perhaps Soviet industrial products can be sold abroad as well? Probably not; even with superior quality control the idealized socialist lifestyle would require different designs for different functions. Still they might export products targeted say for the rising Third World markets, to compete with European, US and Japanese exports?

They would do well to focus primarily on gratifying the farm sector markets, durable good washing machines, ovens, vacuum cleaners, better and more tractors and other farm machinery practical to maintain...this sort of output at a fair price might have done much to incentivize better food production practice. Again maybe--trying to squeeze good crops from marginal land might work well for a few years but then deplete the soil and other bad ecological outcomes, pollution from fertilizers and pesticides-the Soviet agricultural research establishment had better know what they are doing for sustainable results. OTL various fads that looked good to Party planners on paper--Khrushchev with a background in agrarian management but Stalinist style was vulnerable to being swayed by these looked like quick solutions but overlooked serious side effects that set productivity back after a few years of apparent success as with the "Virgin lands" program. If the Party is self-disciplined enough to make sustainability a key metric overriding quick dirty short term results to gain promotions for the apparatchiks, they could probably do better than OTL.

But the land remains scattered and margins, infrastructure scarce without massive investment to cover larger distances between good crop areas, more intensive work for poorer results than could be expected on American land would be the norm. It is no easy row to hoe,

I think if you've got data that tips the balance toward "presumable" success, it is time to share it!
 
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