WI: USN buys a 'better F-14' instead of Super Hornet

That still means one or two more aircraft that can be carried on board.
The Super bug folds up a little smaller than a Tomcat.

Though aren't the Carriers currently running with less planes than they used to anyway (not that that would be known when the decision was made on what to go for of course).
 
The term USN uses/used is the 'spot factor' - a relative number that shows how much of deck is taken by an aircraft. Lower number = smaller A/C. Asumes wing folded or as close to the fuselage. For the Super Bug: 1.23 (here); for the F-14A: 1.45 (here).
However, here is stated that spot factor for the Super Bug = 1.46.
Take all of theis for what it's worth. My take is that size ceased to be an issue for the F-14 once the enlarged F-18E/F/G emeged.

edit: Boeing seems to be economical with the truth. Seems like the F-18A-D have had the spot factor of 1.2, and F-18E-G was at 1.4-1.5 - link.
Cheap also it was not, per the doc.
 
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Maybe also have Pakistan Air Force go for Tomcats which were offered originally instead of F16? If Tomcat has a large international presence than maybe there is interest in keeping the line open?

No, the PAF would reject it. Even the Super Tomcats are too air-superiority oriented and way too expensive, the PAF want affordable multi-function fighter-bombers.
 

Ak-84

Banned
No, the PAF would reject it. Even the Super Tomcats are too air-superiority oriented and way too expensive, the PAF want affordable multi-function fighter-bombers.
In the 1970's and 1980's, the biggest air defence threat was from VVS A/C in Soviet Central Asia. Interceptors are needed more than fighter-bombers.
 
I don't think that a poor country will ever afford an expensive Western A/C - F-14/15 or Mirage 4000. The F-16, Mirage F1/2000 or Viggen were much more affordable.
This is why I've stipulated the 'better F-14' primarily for the USN - they bough the expensive Super Hornet and the OTL F-14 after all. The countries that might've bought the 'better F-14' were Canada and Australia. They have a reasonable amount of money to spend, the F-14 can cover vast expanses of their airspace much better than F-18; probably even supercruise (= supersonic flight without use of afterburners). For the Aussies, the F-14 can replace the F-111 in doing the long range attack job.
 

Ak-84

Banned
I don't think that a poor country will ever afford an expensive Western A/C - F-14/15 or Mirage 4000. The F-16, Mirage F1/2000 or Viggen were much more affordable.
This is why I've stipulated the 'better F-14' primarily for the USN - they bough the expensive Super Hornet and the OTL F-14 after all. The countries that might've bought the 'better F-14' were Canada and Australia. They have a reasonable amount of money to spend, the F-14 can cover vast expanses of their airspace much better than F-18; probably even supercruise (= supersonic flight without use of afterburners). For the Aussies, the F-14 can replace the F-111 in doing the long range attack job.
The Tomcat was 35 million USD. Pakistan paid about 30 million a pop for its F16A. Its not that much more expensive. Pakistans economy was doing pretty well at that time with 4-5% growth. And this is before Foreign Military Funding kicks in.

The F15 was restricted in sales, lot more countries wanted to buy it (including Pakistan and Egypt IOLT) then were actually permitted.Mirage 4000 was a private venture.
 

SsgtC

Banned
That still means one or two more aircraft that can be carried on board.
The Super bug folds up a little smaller than a Tomcat.
Except one or two aircraft aren't going to matter. The Navy doesn't assign birds based on individual number. They're assigned on a per Squadron basis. Which generally consists of 12 aircraft. Saving one or two deck spots is just gonna let them move around a little easier
 
The Tomcat was 35 million USD. Pakistan paid about 30 million a pop for its F16A. Its not that much more expensive. Pakistans economy was doing pretty well at that time with 4-5% growth. And this is before Foreign Military Funding kicks in.

The F15 was restricted in sales, lot more countries wanted to buy it (including Pakistan and Egypt IOLT) then were actually permitted.Mirage 4000 was a private venture.

Granted, there is much more to the procurement of aircraft than just a price.
In 1998 US$ milions, the price of F-14 was 38, while the F-16A was 14.6, and F-16C was 18.8. Numbers from Wikipedia, FWIW. The F-14 will also cost twice to run vs. F-16, with two engines to feed & mantain, and two crew members to train.
F-18C, in 2006 US$ milions: 29; F-18E in 2017 US$ millions: 70.5; F-16V, in 2017 US$ millions: 35. Again numbers from Wikipedia.
 

Ak-84

Banned
True, which is why it would never be a backbone for PAF, EAF, South Korea or even the Saudis like the F16 was. But it would be a very good for a coupleor more sqdrn of high end A2A.

If you have that, then the production line remains open.

Say Egypt and Pakistan both commit for 50-60 A/C. S Korea to 70-80.Saudi Arabia to a 100, instead of the Tornado OTL. You have a 300 A/C overseas order already. That leads to the line staying open and the USN's own costs reducing somewhat.
 

Pangur

Donor
Got to ask, if the F-14 was to keep going (to meet the requirments of the OP) then the F-14 needs some upgrades, what would they be? I am thinking that you would start with the engines, new wiring loom. New weapons and electronics are surely on the cards - thoughts?
 

Ak-84

Banned
Well if we are going have a TomCat wank (a TomWank!) then maybe it becomes the US version of the OTL Flanker series. With multiple variants.
 

Pangur

Donor
Well if we are going have a TomCat wank (a TomWank!) then maybe it becomes the US version of the OTL Flanker series. With multiple variants.
TBH I has as you put it a TomWank in mind. Going for multiple variants is must do if its going to set the sales I have in mind. Interceptor is where it starts and then may be the Bombcat. One idea I had was as a sort of cheapo AWAC where its radar can feed information to other aircraft just prior to an engagement, a sort mother ship if you like
 

SsgtC

Banned
Got to ask, if the F-14 was to keep going (to meet the requirments of the OP) then the F-14 needs some upgrades, what would they be? I am thinking that you would start with the engines, new wiring loom. New weapons and electronics are surely on the cards - thoughts?
Check out the Super Tomcat 21.
 
Except one or two aircraft aren't going to matter. The Navy doesn't assign birds based on individual number. They're assigned on a per Squadron basis. Which generally consists of 12 aircraft. Saving one or two deck spots is just gonna let them move around a little easier

Simplified logistics and operational arrangement is nice too. The traditional F-14, F-18, A-6 air wing is less flexible than a all-Hornet wing.
 
Granted, there is much more to the procurement of aircraft than just a price.
In 1998 US$ milions, the price of F-14 was 38, while the F-16A was 14.6, and F-16C was 18.8. Numbers from Wikipedia, FWIW. The F-14 will also cost twice to run vs. F-16, with two engines to feed & mantain, and two crew members to train.
F-18C, in 2006 US$ milions: 29; F-18E in 2017 US$ millions: 70.5; F-16V, in 2017 US$ millions: 35. Again numbers from Wikipedia.

Do not forget long-term maintenance and logistic costs. The Phoenix missile is pretty expensive per shot and maintenance too.
 
In the 1970's and 1980's, the biggest air defence threat was from VVS A/C in Soviet Central Asia. Interceptors are needed more than fighter-bombers.

The biggest air threat, at all-times, is the Indian Air Force. At the end of the day, the PAF's mission is to support the Pakistani Army to fight a land war against the Indian Forces which is larger. That's why they bought the F-16 and that's thy they bought the JF-17.
 

Ak-84

Banned
The biggest air threat, at all-times, is the Indian Air Force. At the end of the day, the PAF's mission is to support the Pakistani Army to fight a land war against the Indian Forces which is larger. That's why they bought the F-16 and that's thy they bought the JF-17.
That is what the Pakistan Army thinks. The PAF, no so much. Its actually a major bone of contention since the start of the nuclear programme in the 1970's.
IOTL, VVS activity in C Asia had grown so agressive, they PAF was flying CAP all the time on the western border. They had to make Skardu Air Base (aka Camp Permafrost) into a year round airbase.
 
Another option is that Tomcat were sold to more foreign customer

Iran needed them to combat Mig-25 (so the plan)
Other customer could be South Korea, Taiwan and Japan (huge F-14 Fandom)
Lesser degree would be Australia, Saudi Arabia, Israel (political problem) or Great Britain (financial problems)

Note on Iran, you could butterfly the Islamic Revolution away and Iranian Military take over
so in 1990s the Iranians military leader could ask about modernized F-14.
 
Another option is that Tomcat were sold to more foreign customer

Iran needed them to combat Mig-25 (so the plan)
Other customer could be South Korea, Taiwan and Japan (huge F-14 Fandom)
Lesser degree would be Australia, Saudi Arabia, Israel (political problem) or Great Britain (financial problems)

Note on Iran, you could butterfly the Islamic Revolution away and Iranian Military take over
so in 1990s the Iranians military leader could ask about modernized F-14.

Canada and West Germany were also offered the F-14 as well.
 
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