WI: USA won Vietnam

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The United States dropped more ordinance in Southeast Asia in the Vietnam War than they did on Europe and Japan combined in WW2, I'm not sure that just dropping more bombs would have solved anything.
We did not try to destroy cities during the Vietnam war we only hit strategic target. In World War II we destroy the cities to break the civilians well to Fight again us
 
There was as much a difference between the historical groups in Vietnam as there was in the British Isles, with the Irish, Scots, Welsh, and English
Well, yes and no. Despite the presence of several minorities, there was a very big Drang nach Süden with the Dong Hoi and the Viet ethnie was quite spread around

Vietnam had never really been unified on its own in that long history of being occupied by other Empires
There was one 20 years interval in the XVth century and the 70 years of French occupation but otherwise, Vietnam had been fully independant since the Xth century

The DMZ wasn't that randomly placed, it was close to the historical divide, Annam Gate, the boundary between the Trinh & Nguyen
A very valid, and important point
 

longsword14

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Doesn't mean a foreign power should come in and intervene just because they have the socialist ideology.

Vietnam was one country, under imperial rule, divided as much as France itself. Plus Vietnam was to be reunited in 1956, but the South took measures to prevent that, and thus the second Indo-chinese war started.
Neither does it mean that North Vietnam gets to claim all of Vietnam by default.
He had been a solid Communist since the '20s. He said that stuff as being the best way to influence the US, not that he was an admirer of 18thC Democracy.
Interestingly, Roosevelt thought of putting Vietnam under Chinese guardianship. I wonder how that would have went down with Uncle Ho.
 
For there to be any success in Vietnam the US must first not okay the assassination of Diem. Yes his regime was corrupt but he was a competent ruler with a vision of modernization that would have benefited the South in the long-run. He also understood the importance of internal security and could keep things together while focusing on military matters.

After that sustained bombing that leaves Hanoi in ruins would likely do the trick. The gloves would really have to come off and the US would have to be willing to accept the political consequences there but I doubt the North could hold out if their industrial capacity is in ruins. From there you can get a ceasefire that gives the South a needed respite and the US the ability to withdraw ground forces. Air support will remain available to the South should the North renege and attack again.
 
We did not try to destroy cities during the Vietnam war we only hit strategic target. In World War II we destroy the cities to break the civilians well to Fight again us

The only time bombing cities broken the will to resist was when nukes was used.
 

kernals12

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Technically, we did win the Vietnam war. Saigon didn't fall until after we left. The only way we were going to keep the communists out was a decades long military presence as a 1965 Pentagon study made clear.

If we had been willing to do that type of operation, South Vietnam would probably go the way of South Korea with enormous economic growth and eventually a transition to democracy.
 
Technically, we did win the Vietnam war. Saigon didn't fall until after we left. The only way we were going to keep the communists out was a decades long military presence as a 1965 Pentagon study made clear.

If we had been willing to do that type of operation, South Vietnam would probably go the way of South Korea with enormous economic growth and eventually a transition to democracy.
Say the 1975 Offensive fails, either from US intervention or ARVN gets its act together. Does the North have any chance of reviving the insurgency in the South? IIRC, the VC had all but collapsed at that point, and the North had accepted defeat in their efforts to maintain the insurgency, hence resorting to a redux of the '72 Offensive.

Although IMVHO, the only way the US could win was by appointing a leader who had a solid understanding of COIN, and focus the bulk of their efforts on building up local government and security forces. Which, given the number of experienced NCOs and officers this would require, I doubt it would happen. Much easier to send a few hundred thousand draftees into the jungle hunting for the enemy
 
We did not try to destroy cities during the Vietnam war we only hit strategic target. In World War II we destroy the cities to break the civilians well to Fight again us
Boy that’s gonna make the US have a lot of friends Internationally, “be a western-friendly government or we’ll bomb your cities into non-existence.”

All this would do is harden the North Vietnamese’s resistance and will to fight, and push any non-aligned country towards the soviet bloc.
 
Boy that’s gonna make the US have a lot of friends Internationally, “be a western-friendly government or we’ll bomb your cities into non-existence.”

That was what the US did in North Koreans, gave them the full Japanese City treatment, and most industry was wrecked in months.
Now they didn't give up, but were totally reliant on aid from the other Communist nations.

In the case ov Vietnam, the only real WWII treatment they got was with mining Haiphong Harbor, that was VERY effective, as most of their supply came in that way, as Mao skimmed much off the top for what was transferred by Rail
 
Basically. There's no other way to win. One way is destruction of Dikes . That would kill USA politically as country of democracy. I have estimated, immediate death toll would be 300-400 thousands, and 2-3 millions dying from ecological disaster and famine. Thats REALLY bad outcome.
Although, there would be big chance, that DRV would descend into anarchy. And so on, war is over. But thats mass death, so its why i tried to avoid it. But, seems like this was only way to win. Too horrific and appaling... I dont want to see this as result.
Mods, close thread, please.
@CalBear
 
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