WI US victory at 'battle of Hawaii?

If the US had worked out roughly Japanese plans and had been on high alert on December 7th.

The ships on full alert with all watertight doors closed. Aircraft scrambled.

Then the Japanese carriers are located and hit hard/

Would this allow the Philipines to hold?
 

SsgtC

Banned
If the US had worked out roughly Japanese plans and had been on high alert on December 7th.

The ships on full alert with all watertight doors closed. Aircraft scrambled.

Then the Japanese carriers are located and hit hard/

Would this allow the Philipines to hold?
No. The Philippines are within range of land based air cover from Taiwan. So the IJA can call upon land based fighters and bombers to support their attack and keep any American ships at bay. I don't think the USN would risk their fleet in the Philippines. Hell, War Plan Orange basically considered the Philippines a write off even with a fully intact fleet and USAAF based in the Philippines.
 
"December 7th, a Day that Rings with Victory!," - FDR

Famous "Kimmel defeats Truman" headline in 1948.

Mario Puzo either has to pick another Birthday for Don Corleone or make it a positive thing at the end of Godfather II.
 
An alerted Pearl may suffer fewer casualties, as the IJN first wave is heavily outnumbered and the second wave would abort if the first encountered heavy resistance.

However, the Far East Air Force had radar contact with the Japanese airstrikes on Manila on Dec 8th OTL, and still (through inexperience at GCI) failed to get three pursuit squadrons that were available to manage to intercept the Japanese bomber raids that destroyed much of the FEAF on the ground.

A cautious Kimmel would send the fleet to the southwest, where they will not be spotted at all, and let the USAAF defend empty docks.

A Kimmel who feels confident and aggressive will try for a night action before dawn, where the Standards may be able to cripple Hiei and Kirishima before they can outrun the slow USN capital ships, after which the USN cruiser element outguns the rest of the IJN force and is fast enough to run down the carriers.

The risk of such a strategy is that if the Pacific Fleet fails to find Kido Butai in the darkness, come dawn they will be beyond the range of Hawaiian land-based fighter cover. While the air strikes will find maneuvering ships a more difficult target, also US casualties from any sinkings will be higher, any losses will not be made good as most of the BBs were OTL.

If there is a night battle, IJN training and torpedoes are likely to cause significant losses to the USN. Having said that, if it results in Kido Butai being sunk in a surface engagement, the tenor of the Pacific War will be very different. Pye's reinforcement of Wake can proceed; Japanese attacks on Rabaul, Palau, and Ambon may be postponed. Darwin will not be raided with the light CV strength remaining to the IJN.
 
No. The Philippines are within range of land based air cover from Taiwan. So the IJA can call upon land based fighters and bombers to support their attack and keep any American ships at bay. I don't think the USN would risk their fleet in the Philippines. Hell, War Plan Orange basically considered the Philippines a write off even with a fully intact fleet and USAAF based in the Philippines.
To be fair, the Philippines are also within land based air cover from, well, the Philippines.
A stronger air defense presence there, combined with McArthur not fucking up (all together now: "ASB!") and allowing B-17 strikes on Formosa, might see a wholly different air war play out.
 
with the cream of the Japanese navy sunk at Hawaii.... you'd think that they would go into a defensive mode pretty quick. IIRC, it's too late at this time to stop the planned invasions of the Philippines and some other places, but I could see them withdrawing all those naval forces from the Alaska operation (they are needed to hold the front line now), cancelling the Wake invasion, maybe a few others. Their forward island bases are going to be looked at as defensive fortresses now...
 
Top