WI: US-Russia Military Alliance in 1871

In 1871, Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich of Russia was sent on a goodwill tour of America. Relations were good enough between the USA and Russia that a military alliance was expected. It fell through, partly because Grant wasn't a good statesman, and partly because the Russian ambassador was more used to politics in the Baltics than in the US.


What if it hadn't fallen through?
 

wormyguy

Banned
It falls through during the 1877 Russo-Ottoman War. US military alliances were essentially only conducted with the assurance that only defensive wars would be fought.
 
It falls through during the 1877 Russo-Ottoman War. US military alliances were essentially only conducted with the assurance that only defensive wars would be fought.

There are many different kinds of military alliance, including ones where the ally only has to come to their aid if they aren't the aggressor. Or would that be too out there to happen?
 
It could be an eniterly defensive alliance, the question in my mind is the effect such a deffensive alliance would have on trade relations between the US and Russia as well technology exchange between the two states.
 

wormyguy

Banned
It could be an eniterly defensive alliance, the question in my mind is the effect such a deffensive alliance would have on trade relations between the US and Russia as well technology exchange between the two states.
If Russia were opened up to American investment, their scenario might be a lot better in the future.
 
If Russia were opened up to American investment, their scenario might be a lot better in the future.

Despite the size and industry the U.S. had achieved, it was still a developing country at this point, requiring vast amounts of foreign investment to develop its own resources. It's not likely for it to invest much in Russia.
 

wormyguy

Banned
Despite the size and industry the U.S. had achieved, it was still a developing country at this point, requiring vast amounts of foreign investment to develop its own resources. It's not likely for it to invest much in Russia.
In terms of total industry, I think it may have already become the greatest industrial power in the world. Investment from the French Third Republic after the signing of the Entente Cordiale did amazing things for Russia (making it into the second fastest-growing economy in the world before WWI, behind China). If you substitute investment from the world's largest economy (as compared to France, which was a distant 4th), and for a greater period of time, Russia might end up being a bona fide economic superpower by 1914.
 
Perhaps the US and Russia could creat a viable economic threat to the European powers with closer Russo-American economic ties?
 
Could? Try will. The sheer amount of resources Russia and America have access to alone would make them a significant economic threat to Europe.
 

Deleted member 1487

Remember that bit about no entangling foreign alliances? Well that wasn't broken until Wilson in 1917, so I HIGHLY doubt that the US would renege on the tradition for autocratic Russia.
 
Remember that bit about no entangling foreign alliances? Well that wasn't broken until Wilson in 1917, so I HIGHLY doubt that the US would renege on the tradition for autocratic Russia.

The US and Russia had excellent relations up until Lenin took over. And even after Russia became the USSR, they had cordial relations until WW2 and the Cold War. Which was when everything went south.

If it was Russia, I could see America getting into a purely defensive pact.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
In terms of total industry, I think it may have already become the greatest industrial power in the world.

Nowhere near. The fully united USA achieved parity with the UK in output in the major industrial sectors between 1890 and 1902 (depending on the sector). In the 1860's the UK had 5-20 fold outputs in most major industrial sectors.
 
A military alliance only makes sense if they share a common potential enemy.

The only potential common enemy is the British Empire (USA vs Canada, Russia towards India and/or the Med), and even then if the USA and Russia are intending to be aggressor powers (which may require an explanation in itself probably)

Britain will be able to see this threat, and prepare accordingly. It will certainly be looking to get Germany and Austria on its side to help keep the Russians busy.
 
A military alliance only makes sense if they share a common potential enemy.

The only potential common enemy is the British Empire (USA vs Canada, Russia towards India and/or the Med), and even then if the USA and Russia are intending to be aggressor powers (which may require an explanation in itself probably)

Britain will be able to see this threat, and prepare accordingly. It will certainly be looking to get Germany and Austria on its side to help keep the Russians busy.

Your forgetting Japan.
 
If you substitute investment from the world's largest economy (as compared to France, which was a distant 4th), and for a greater period of time, Russia might end up being a bona fide economic superpower by 1914.

My attention turned to the ripple effects of a Russia not wooed and courted into an Alliance by France. Without Russia jumping into bed with France the entire pre-WW1 circle of enemies is changed. The British might be much more hostile to American naval increases over time. France is in a really tight spot as she either has to beg for British help or attempt to weasel into the Russo-American relationship. I suppose that's possible. I don't think Austria would slip away from Germany (who should have booted or ran from that decrepit state asap!!!) even though this was still an option before 1970's. Germany could either feel more relaxed not being totally encircled by ever increasing armies of France and Russia or perhaps eventually be emboldened into even more post-Bismarck blunders. Bismarck on the other hand would just continued his policy of French isolation and ensuring the European peace. Russian relationships and possible alliances with the US would not concern him nor ability to deal/work with Russia on decent terms. His unconfirmed quote "The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia." rings true to that ... and I think would have major improved repercussions for everyone. Again, unless those after him again screwed everything up.
 
(who should have booted or ran from that decrepit state asap!!!)

Yes, and thus handed Russia the Balkans on a silver platter whilst outraging public opinion by refusing to support a brother nation (people often forget that the foremost advocates of the Austro-German allaince were the pan-Germanists on both sides, who had no interest in unification through another Bruederkrieg. Anyway Austria's decrepitness has been drastically exagerated.
 
My attention turned to the ripple effects of a Russia not wooed and courted into an Alliance by France. Without Russia jumping into bed with France the entire pre-WW1 circle of enemies is changed. The British might be much more hostile to American naval increases over time. France is in a really tight spot as she either has to beg for British help or attempt to weasel into the Russo-American relationship. I suppose that's possible. I don't think Austria would slip away from Germany (who should have booted or ran from that decrepit state asap!!!) even though this was still an option before 1970's. Germany could either feel more relaxed not being totally encircled by ever increasing armies of France and Russia or perhaps eventually be emboldened into even more post-Bismarck blunders. Bismarck on the other hand would just continued his policy of French isolation and ensuring the European peace. Russian relationships and possible alliances with the US would not concern him nor ability to deal/work with Russia on decent terms.

The British were never hostile toward American naval increases.

I think the remaining problem is that Russia has interests in Europe, the Balkans, Central Asia and the Far East, which the US doesn't and it would be hard to get the US interested in coming to Russia's aid. Allied with the US does not keep the Straits open to Russian shipping.
 
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