WI: US occupation of Quebec in the American Rev

I'm very tired right now, so please forgive me.

The Founding Fathers always were very eager to get the willing inclusion of Quebec in their political experiment. As such, it is to be expected that had Quebec joined the other 14 colonies (if Quebec joins, so most likely does Nova Scotia),

Why do people always assume that if Québec falls, Nova Scotia follows? :mad:


at the Constitutional Convention, it would have bargained, and being granted, strong guarantees about its religious and cultural autonomy (and more secure than what colonial British Administration granted).

And at the first opportunity given for the majority, these opportunities would be revoked since ordinary Americans were not too keen on sharing space with "Papists", particularly if they speak a different language and have an entirely different culture than what most Americans are used to.

Early US constitutional and political system granted a minority that was local majority in one or more states, exceedingly ample margins of autonomy, and more explicit guarantees can easily be gotten about language rights and the local establishment of the Catholic church. Given the very ample respect Americans had for states' rights, pretty much everything that did not amounted to discrimination of Quebec Anglos and Protestants would have been acceptable to the rest of the states.

But that's the problem. If that were the case, then you'd have the same situation as what happened in Québec in OTL - a small, Anglophone élite minority over a majority Francophone population, which would certainly cause tension. And besides, to most Americans, tolerance didn't really extend to Catholics unless they converted to Protestant Christianity (which is highly unlikely). So the local establishment of the Catholic Church would face massive opposition among anglophones.

As such, the most likely outcome is that Quebec becomes an integral part of the American experiment.

Which is highly doubtful and tenuous at best.
 
Because they wouldn't want to enter into such a strong political union with the culturally and religiously different former English colonies.

Especially more so in this case.

Based on what? What's in the constitution that's a deal breaker to them?

You don't even need to look in the Constitution. Most Americans were anti-"Papist", especially with a case like Canada where the vast majority of people are Catholic. Anti-Catholic hostilities are going to be even more so than normal - probably enough to derail the Constitution all together. Here, not too many Canadiens were willing to be part of the US either.

If you think about it, it's actually to our views on México, minus the immigration bit.

I should note that somehow the Quebecois have managed to enter into a political union with culturally and religiously different English colonies anyway...

Actually, on that point, I would have to really say the Canadas were relatively united since the beginning, so it's not so much entering an entirely new union than it really is confirming the status quo - at least between Ontario and Québec.
 
You don't even need to look in the Constitution. Most Americans were anti-"Papist", especially with a case like Canada where the vast majority of people are Catholic. Anti-Catholic hostilities are going to be even more so than normal - probably enough to derail the Constitution all together. Here, not too many Canadiens were willing to be part of the US either.

Anti-Catholicism is hard to define, here. There were Catholics in Continental Cognress and at the Constitutional Convention, and in the Continental Army. France was idolized by much of America, and was a Catholic nation. And of course Congress went out of its way to woo the Catholic church.

IMO Quebec would've leaned towards America if America had won the battle. But having it not be retaken, hrm.
 
Anti-Catholicism is hard to define, here. There were Catholics in Continental Cognress and at the Constitutional Convention, and in the Continental Army.

So what explains the anti-Catholic tirades of people like Alexander Hamilton and John Jay?

France was idolized by much of America, and was a Catholic nation. And of course Congress went out of its way to woo the Catholic church.

Canada =/= France. The Canadiens hated France with a passion, and that is not going to change any time soon.

IMO Quebec would've leaned towards America if America had won the battle. But having it not be retaken, hrm.

Actually, I would assume that if Canada does not secede and become independent, it would've leaned more towards Britain - particularly in the rural areas. Think about it: there is a huge citadel in Québec City, not to mention a heavy presence of British soldiers at that time. That was normal. Currently, that citadel is one of the GG's two official residences, but at the time, along with Halifax, it was one of the most important bases of the British military in North America. At least the British were smart not to piss off a lot of people during their rule - with the Americans, it would be the opposite, due to the fact that it's closer to them than the British. If anything, Canada might become the first territory lost to the US.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Why do people always assume that if Québec falls, Nova Scotia follows? :mad:

Good point. I was unwittingly thinking of my own PoD, where Quebec willingly joins the ARW from the start (repressive Quebec Act), and in that case, Nova Scotia would indeed fall.

And at the first opportunity given for the majority, these opportunities would be revoked since ordinary Americans were not too keen on sharing space with "Papists", particularly if they speak a different language and have an entirely different culture than what most Americans are used to.

But that's the problem. If that were the case, then you'd have the same situation as what happened in Québec in OTL - a small, Anglophone élite minority over a majority Francophone population, which would certainly cause tension. And besides, to most Americans, tolerance didn't really extend to Catholics unless they converted to Protestant Christianity (which is highly unlikely). So the local establishment of the Catholic Church would face massive opposition among anglophones.

This is simply, utterly ASB. There was a sizable Catholic minority in the 13 colonies, and they were granted full civil and political rights from the start of the Revolution, both at the federal and state level. There were never any serious calls to make them second-class citizens in any part of Revolutionary America. There were Catholic members of the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Congress, and theire presence went without question of the other Founding Fathers nor the the public. On the contrary, the Congress went out of its way to woo Quebec at its side during the Revolution, and pre-approved Quebec admission in the AoC. Unless you can give solid proof of utterly non-existent anti-Catholic mobs rioting to repeal the 1st Amendment and legislate second-class status for Catholics, your claims are utterly devoid of substance.
 
You don't even need to look in the Constitution. Most Americans were anti-"Papist", especially with a case like Canada where the vast majority of people are Catholic. Anti-Catholic hostilities are going to be even more so than normal - probably enough to derail the Constitution all together.

Yes, because everyone was lining up to lynch Charles Carroll of Carrollton. :rolleyes:
 
If Quebec was taken and became part of the US, it would almost certainly be one of the biggest supporters of State rights. If TTL has a civil war Quebec could support the Southern States. Not because of the slavery issue, but simply to ensure that Washington doesn't become too powerful.
 
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