WI: US never abolished slavery

oberdada

Gone Fishin'
Isaak Asimovs robot stories (if they are not butterflied away) might have had a real political meaning, especially the naked sun, having the basic message that Slavery (his robot are really that) will bring technological and social development to halt.
This might change the entire way Science Fiction is seen and will develop in the 40s and 50s, bringing us more serious and influental Soft SF much earlier.
 
Waht if the USA never abolished slavery?

Decades of Darkness has managed to keep it alive to a degree as of the 1950's, but not without serious risk-taking on Jared's part(though the fact that indenture branched out somewhat by adapting parts of the Mexican system has helped mitigate some of the, well, improbability is the best way I can put it.)......although I can say that it certainly won't last forever(especially if fans and contributors have any say in the matter......;)).
 
I didn't say it was superior to machines. I just said that a society like that has no impetus to move towards machinery and industrialisation.

Except the whole, machine>man problem. Even if saving labor isn't an issue, the fact that a steam engine can do the work of many men is very appealing - and of course, a steam engine can be operated by slave labor if you really are determined to cling to slavery.

I think the more serious problem is that a society that clings to slavery that tightly isn't likely to be one with a terribly high level of development, but the US is as technologically advanced as the rest of the Western world, more or less, at the point things would have to change to see slavery all over.

Its not likely to fall behind.

Barbarossa: I know which side I'm on*, but wage slavery versus actual slavery...I'll just put it this way. Even serfs had rights. Slaves don't.

That is a huge difference.

* Kudos to anyone else who likes the song.
 
Except the whole, machine>man problem. Even if saving labor isn't an issue, the fact that a steam engine can do the work of many men is very appealing - and of course, a steam engine can be operated by slave labor if you really are determined to cling to slavery.

I think the more serious problem is that a society that clings to slavery that tightly isn't likely to be one with a terribly high level of development, but the US is as technologically advanced as the rest of the Western world, more or less, at the point things would have to change to see slavery all over.

Its not likely to fall behind.

Barbarossa: I know which side I'm on*, but wage slavery versus actual slavery...I'll just put it this way. Even serfs had rights. Slaves don't.

That is a huge difference.

* Kudos to anyone else who likes the song.

In a country that exists with more than just the South, it's not too hard to get some serious opposition against the institution, even if that particular region should become somewhat dominant for a while.
 
In a country that exists with more than just the South, it's not too hard to get some serious opposition against the institution, even if that particular region should become somewhat dominant for a while.

This is also true. I'm assuming that for whatever reason the rest of the country is okay with continuing it, or continues it within their own borders.
 
The difference between slavery and pre-social reforms factory workers is not very big. De jure the workers might be free but de facto they were worse off.
And who said than slavery would prevent any industrial development?

BTW some sort of slavery still exists today: prison farms (and similiar institutions) is atemporary form of slavery, with the state as slaver (especially if the state leases the prisoners to others).
 
The difference between slavery and pre-social reforms factory workers is not very big. De jure the workers might be free but de facto they were worse off.
And who said than slavery would prevent any industrial development?

BTW some sort of slavery still exists today: prison farms (and similiar institutions) is atemporary form of slavery, with the state as slaver (especially if the state leases the prisoners to others).

When a factory worker can be beaten to death for any reason or none, or raped without consequences, or have his/her family split up, or isn't able to marry (in any recognized way), or otherwise treated as property with no rights or protections granted by the law...

Sure, Irishmen in some conditions might have been treated as expendable and cheap where as slaves were valuable, but I'd rather be an Irishman working a 12 hour day in a factory than a black slave doing the same or a black slave in most conditions we do see them in.

The fact the I can legally better my lot is a substantial point in the favor of freedom. Both by social reforms, and in terms of my personal lot - if I save enough money, I can do something with it.

Working for George Pullman (picked as the best example of wage slavery's level of control over the workers) is hardly a desirable scenario, but I'd put it well above plantation slavery.

As for who said slavery hinders all industrial development: I believe Serenissima has been advancing something along those lines.
 
Sorry, but the workers in the factories of the 19th centuries were slaves in everything but name.

Don't forget to touch on miners and garment workers with that broad brush of yours. ;) Seriously though, their "lot in life', while harsh and by our standards deplorable, was much better then that of slaves.
 
In thinking of this nightmare scenario I tend to think slavery would have had to be more widespread/.

Query were slaves used in Kentucky, Tenesssee and West Virginia Coal mines?

Could they have been used in Pennsylvania and have changed the political balance amongst the white electorate there?
 
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