WI: US Navy takes action against U-Boats earlier in WW1

BigBlueBox

Banned
Could the USA have decided to send its navy to protect shipping in the Atlantic without committing to a full war against Germany? Would this decision actually require Congress to declare war on Germany, or authorize it through other means, or could the president do it unilaterally? What could be a good POD for this? A more hawkish U.S. president like Theodore Roosevelt gets elected instead of Woodrow Wilson and immediately sends in the navy after Germany begins unrestricted submarine warfare? Germany never makes the Sussex Pledge but the Zimmerman Telegram incident never happens either, leading Woodrow Wilson to take a more limited action against Germany? If this had happened, would it have lead to Germany abandoning unrestricted submarine warfare and a de-escalation of US-German tensions or further escalation and total war?
 
I always thought something like this to be the better reaction to USW, vs committing thousands to die on the battlefields of France, for reasons of little interest to most USA citizens.

How about:
1) Weekly escorted convoys to Liverpool, Le Harve, Naples from New York.
2) Seizure of all German merchants and other assets in USA ports as compensation for losses.
3) Break in diplomatic relations.
4) USA government guarantees for Entente loans.

However:
1) No commitment of USA armies to the western front.
2) No permanent station of naval forces in Europe.

This could be a reaction of German USW but no Zimmerman telegram.
 
Big Blue Box ; ... Wow, great question. You certainly know more detailed history here than I do. I would just say that the major trend of Congress and the President, (in public, in secret he did want war?) would be just to OFFICIALLY stay out of WW1. Officially. After all, the politicians want to get reelected. Unofficially? Lots things would have had to be different. Different President? Different Congressional and Senatorial leaders?

But a big USA, (USN) addressing the German U-boat menace much earlier might have had many repercussions. How would the USN do it without money from Congress? How could Congress give money to the USN for a U-boat destruction campaign without angering the isolationists all over the nation? Dunno that. Lots of near German or all Germans living in the USA at the time. An earlier era. Lots would have to happen. Yikes!
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
But a big USA, (USN) addressing the German U-boat menace much earlier might have had many repercussions. How would the USN do it without money from Congress? How could Congress give money to the USN for a U-boat destruction campaign without angering the isolationists all over the nation? Dunno that. Lots of near German or all Germans living in the USA at the time. An earlier era. Lots would have to happen. Yikes!
That's true, the military didn't have the kind of independence from Congress back then that it has today. I would imagine that the president would try to argue that unrestricted submarine warfare is illegal warfare akin to privateering, and that by sending the U.S. Navy to protect American convoys the United States was simply enforcing the law of the sea, not going to war against Germany.
 
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I always felt that usw was an excuse to enter ww1. The real reason why america entered the war was becuase American banks and citizens had bought British and French warbonds and the American government felt an Entente loss in ww1 would have negatively effect their economy and citizens and the Americans felt that with the Russian weakness collapse was going to lead to an entente loss in the war.
 
I always felt that usw was an excuse to enter ww1. The real reason why america entered the war was becuase American banks and citizens had bought British and French warbonds and the American government felt an Entente loss in ww1 would have negatively effect their economy and citizens and the Americans felt that with the Russian weakness collapse was going to lead to an entente loss in the war.
The US basically lent ~$10 billion to the Entente during WWI if I remember correctly, 80% of that was after the US entered the war. Until then only ~$2 billion was owed, and most of that was collateralized, so that if the Entente defaulted most of the US debtholders would get paid. For comparison US GDP in 1913 was ~$39 billion, with US government income at~$1.2 billion. Those who bought unsecured debt were a minority of that $2 billion. Incidentally the US spent $27 billion on fighting the war

The US entered the war due to outrage from Zimmerman and USW, in part due to the Entente being really good at manipulating US public opinion, while Germany was quite horrible at it

If you have figures on pre 1917 bond sales in the US I would love to see them
 
That's true, the military didn't have the kind of independence from Congress back then that it has today. I would imagine that the president would try to argue that unrestricted submarine warfare is illegal warfare akin to privateering, and that by sending the U.S. Navy to protect American convoys the United States was simply enforcing the law of the sea, not going to war against Germany.
I'm not so sure the United States is only very much felt that the freedoms of the Seas was something that we had the right to. From the Revolutionary War until now. As long as it's American ships which America had already stated and shown that we have the right to go wherever we want to what do you agree with that or not it's still closer to fact. So it would be a very fine line as to how far away from American ships in a convoy we're away from the U-boats whether the U-boats were valid Target's. Is someone else posted you're very good at it propaganda. And in spite of the large number of German American citizens many many of them change their last name away from the German spelling to a more Americanized or English spelling.
 
How about:
1) Weekly escorted convoys to Liverpool, Le Harve, Naples from New York.

Or if Congress thought this was getting too much like entering the war, perhaps escorted convoys to Spain and/or Norway, with the Entente left to collect the cargoes from there.
 
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