WI: US Has Better Tanks and Tactics In WWII

Yes, I'm familiar with the Battle of Kiev where several Soviet generals, including Budenny warned Stalin that the big disaster was about to happen and where those forced to fight there in the doomed pockets kept the Germans tied down for months despite all the Soviet disadvantages of 1941. It's a scenario won as much by Soviet mistakes as what Model himself actually did, which is a victory that attests more to his tactical skills than it does anything like the ability to fight the kind of mobile offensive that both sides excelled at in that war.

His 1944 battles reflected again as much on his ability to ruthlessly exploit Red Army mistakes as to what he did in conditions rather more static than in the protracted, sustained mobile operations that characterized much of the war. Like with the Soviet generals of the Leningrad Front after the siege was broken and Bernard Montgomery he was good in static set-piece battles, though his defensive skills were perhaps some of the greatest in the entire war.


Model could only destroy the divisions in front of him regardless of poor soviet strategic decision making; which he and the third panzer division did; his division alone took over 200,000 prisoners and captured 600 tanks and 1000 artillery pieces in 1941 alone.

Model was good at reading maps and putting his forces in the right place which is how he won his battles. Zhukov impatiantly and stupidly sent his forces into east prussia without waiting for neighboring fronts to catch up and screen his flanks which Model and Hossbach realized, massed the 3rd panzer army on his flank and punched him in the mouth causing the loss of thousands of experienced troops and loads of heavy equipment in a battle that the Russians should have never had thrust on them after learning the lesson at third kharkov

If Walter Model(as ETO ground forces commander for the allies) was looking at the map seeing the German army mindlessly throwing themselves at averanches he would have moved his divisions like lightening to the flanks; wrapped the german army up and proceeded to beat their brains in to surrender with his airpower and artillery
 
Model could only destroy the divisions in front of him regardless of poor soviet strategic decision making; which he and the third panzer division did; his division alone took over 200,000 prisoners and captured 600 tanks and 1000 artillery pieces in 1941 alone.

Model was good at reading maps and putting his forces in the right place which is how he won his battles. Zhukov impatiantly and stupidly sent his forces into east prussia without waiting for neighboring fronts to catch up and screen his flanks which Model and Hossbach realized, massed the 3rd panzer army on his flank and punched him in the mouth causing the loss of thousands of experienced troops and loads of heavy equipment in a battle that the Russians should have never had thrust on them after learning the lesson at third kharkov

If Walter Model(as ETO ground forces commander for the allies) was looking at the map seeing the German army mindlessly throwing themselves at averanches he would have moved his divisions like lightening to the flanks; wrapped the german army up and proceeded to beat their brains in to surrender with his airpower and artillery

Again, Model is a brilliant defensive commander and able to fight set-piece battles, but suited to a subordinate role *only* in offensive battles. It's no co-incidence that Model's star rose the more the Germans sacrificed all ways of fighting the war beyond praying the Soviets got hit with a Stupid Virus and holding on until that happened.
 
Again, Model is a brilliant defensive commander and able to fight set-piece battles, but suited to a subordinate role *only* in offensive battles. It's no co-incidence that Model's star rose the more the Germans sacrificed all ways of fighting the war beyond praying the Soviets got hit with a Stupid Virus and holding on until that happened.

His star rose because he won the battles he touched for a long period of time and he was consistent in inflicting a massively superior body count in offensive and defensive opeation

He didn't want Kursk; and showed hitler photos of how insanely fortified the soviet positions on his right flank where and he got utterly screwed over in the allottment of new armored vehicles; plus he had to deal with Kluge's/Zeitzler's nonsense and meddling whereas Manstein was afforded (mostly) the freedom to wipe his ass with orders and get first priority in new tanks and 1st class divisions

outside of the bulge; there was not a poorly handled offensive in Model's career
 
His star rose because he won the battles he touched for a long period of time and he was consistent in inflicting a massively superior body count in offensive and defensive opeation

He didn't want Kursk; and showed hitler photos of how insanely fortified the soviet positions on his right flank where and he got utterly screwed over in the allottment of new armored vehicles; plus he had to deal with Kluge's/Zeitzler's nonsense and meddling whereas Manstein was afforded (mostly) the freedom to wipe his ass with orders and get first priority in new tanks and 1st class divisions

outside of the bulge; there was not a poorly handled offensive in Model's career

In situations where the USSR lacked the ability to co-ordinate offensives and sometimes using panzers and heavy artillery against cavalry and infantry, as opposed to armor. Anyone with a modicum of competence and the resources Model had available could win that kind of fight. When the USSR developed the ability to co-ordinate large-scale attacks German effectiveness shriveled up and died for all their generals who were so focused on the Red Army of 1941 they never realized the Red Army of 1944 was a completely different army.
 
Well, for one thing the Allies would have won the war. Oops. They DID win the war.

As an aside: The debate about the Pershing always strikes me as a "Macho" thing. The Heer had better tanks (not at all the case) so they were BETTER. It is silly.

CalBear,
It is said that the victors write the histories. On that basis, I sometimes wonder who did win the war.

I agree with you about the "Macho" thing. For one, how often do you see women arguing such things? Also, the Americans and British (but not Commonwealth) weren't compentent enough to fight their way out of a paper bag.
 
Top