WI US allowed free immigration of Jews during 1930s and WW2?
I've heard a figure of 1 million
FDR would have liked to settle them in sparsely populated states
That would have really changed demographics particularly in Alaska the influx of new immigrants would have gotten Alaska statehood much earlier
FDR would have liked to settle them in sparsely populated states
That would have really changed demographics particularly in Alaska the influx of new immigrants would have gotten Alaska statehood much earlier
1) Legally (or at least politically), the US could not grant preference in immigration to one particular ethnic/religious group.
2) The vast majority of European Jews didn't want to emigrate and didn't really think it was necessary until too late. A third to half of Nazi victims lived in the USSR (including territory occupied by the USSR in 1939-1940), and weren't free to go anywhere.
2) The vast majority of European Jews didn't want to emigrate and didn't really think it was necessary until too late. A third to half of Nazi victims lived in the USSR (including territory occupied by the USSR in 1939-1940), and weren't free to go anywhere.
1) The ethnic quotas by definition are granting preference to certain groups over others. All Congress has to do is pass a law granting Jewish exemption in the 1930s. As for politically, I guess someone can come up with a POD allowing this to happen in some way.
2) True, that's why I asked this question. I also know the vast majority can't be saved.
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Could Puerto Rico have been an option also? Making PR a state due to an influx of pro-statehood peoples? As well as vastly boosting the island's economy? This would probably effectively dampen the opposition of anti-immigrants within the continental US. Or could it push PR towards independence?
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The quotas and restrictions were based on national origin. I don't think it would be constitutional to discriminate among persons of a given nationality by religion or ethnicity, which are fluid and subjective qualities. (And in the case of religion, changeable at a moment's notice.)
OTOH, the US later granted exemption (refugee status) to persons fleeing persecution on various grounds, including religion. In 1989 Congress extended this exemption to all persons of "historically persecuted groups" (mostly religious) without specific evidence of individual abuse.
With the Great Depression I don't see how this could be done, the US had a surplus of workers already. Any government that is going to allow thousands of more foreigners in is going to have problems with elections.
Parts of the country with a high influx of refugees would probably associate German things with Judaism because of the large influx of German Jews; an exception would be the midwest if large numbers of them settle there, because of the huge number of German-American Christians. Many of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were not German but Polish/Russian/Baltic/other eastern Europeans. They're less likely to escape to the USA before it's too late.
This is an interesting question.
We have to think of the German jews at first, as the pressure on the increases right in 1933 and becomes unbearable by late 1938. OTL, due to this long escalation during peacetime, a good deal of them could escape Germany at least at first (notable example for false security: the Frank family in Amsterdam) - however going for any place they can reach. An "open" US would quickly become the preferred destination (Palestine / later Israel might suffer to that regards).
There were 500,000 German jews. OTL, about half of them had emigrated by the outbreak of the war. The decision not to emigrate was generally a tragic mistake. However- even with faciliated access, some people just would not be ready to leave. Too old, too sick- or bound to old and sick relatives. Too patriotic and unwilling to leave German culture behind, unwilling to start a new life and profession, the vain hope that Nazism might just go away or not end up enacting unthinkable cruelties... and then there is the fact that the Nazis abused Weimar legislation to ensure that whoever escapes the 3rd Reich....does so with only a fraction of his money (Reichsfluchtsteuer).
Ironically, NS authorities would joyfully co-operate with US organisations. Because, as long as war and dominance over (Eastern) Europe was not in the cards, making jews emigrate seemed to be the only feasible way to get rid of them. However, as soon as the 2nd World War starts, I see the logistics of migration to become too tough for any massive movements. Even if you still had charitable organisations organizing the flight of Jews, their work would have become extremely difficult.
So let us assume that a friendly US legislation increases the willingness of Germany's jews to board a ship, I expect that at least a quarter of them remains in the homeland no matter what. Instead of 250,000 , about 375,000 leave - but most of them to the United States. Let us say, 85%.
So we talk about little more than 325,000 persons over the course of seven years (1933-39). Basically, New York City could swallow them up. To be honest, I do not see any actual settlement projects apart from a few quasi-Zionist projects. Why should the United States treat them like Native Americans and basically relegate them to reservations? Very few of these immigrants would be used to living on the countryside. Their professional expertise would make them seek employment in the metropolises of the CONUS.
***
In 1938/39 we can add numbers some by including Austria, then the Czech Republic, into the addition. The general situation would however be the same. Readiness to leave Austria, where the "frog in hot water effect" didn't occur, but Nazis terror reached Vienna (where almost 90% of Austria's jews lived) overnight with full force, seemed to be higher. 120,000 of a bit more than 200,000 could emigrate within less than two years.
So that makes a realistic number of 150,000.
In the Czech Protectorate, only 26,000 of 120,000 Jews could flee. Here we could see a significant increase, optimistically perhaps to 80,000. Don't forget: the window of opportunity here (after March 15th, 1939) is very narror!
Given the time pressure, the US are the destination of 90% of these refugeees. So we add ca. 210.000 people to 325.000 .... 535.000.
***
Now here is a big question. What does the legistlation making an exception from the quota system of the day look like? Does it only refer to immigration from the Reich? Because then we talk about exactly these three numbers above.
Or does it mean that Jews can come to America no matter what or no matter where from? Frankly, I would assume that to be a hot political topic. Would Tevje be as welcome as Albert Einstein?
IMHO, a legislation which allows a substantial number of Eastern European Jews to flee before Wehrmacht, SS and Einsatzgruppen overrun their home (and afterwards, it is too late for saving more than a few - remember, about half of the Holocaust has already been done before the extermination camps opened their gates) is only feasible in a scenario when the tightening of US immigration laws in the 1920s either a) doesn't happen or b) gets strongly scaled down / aboslished at the start of FDR's presidency.
This, however, would let a lot of the trends of the 1900s and early 1910s continue: a generally strong immigration, increasingly from Eastern and Southern Europe... not just Jews. Leaving the Soviet Union would prove difficult (though it doesn't seem to have been absolutely impossible), so if such a measure saves European Jews, we mainly talk about Polish, Rumanians, Hungarians.
So, the earlier immigration restrictions get lifted, the less Jews the Nazis will find in Eastern Europe. But I agree that it is hard to imagine the combined numbers of 1933-1945 Jewish immigration rise above 1,000,000.
We have to think of the German jews at first, as the pressure on the increases right in 1933 and becomes unbearable by late 1938. OTL, due to this long escalation during peacetime, a good deal of them could escape Germany at least at first (notable example for false security: the Frank family in Amsterdam) - however going for any place they can reach. An "open" US would quickly become the preferred destination (Palestine / later Israel might suffer to that regards).
There were 500,000 German jews. OTL, about half of them had emigrated by the outbreak of the war. The decision not to emigrate was generally a tragic mistake. However- even with faciliated access, some people just would not be ready to leave. Too old, too sick- or bound to old and sick relatives. Too patriotic and unwilling to leave German culture behind, unwilling to start a new life and profession, the vain hope that Nazism might just go away or not end up enacting unthinkable cruelties... and then there is the fact that the Nazis abused Weimar legislation to ensure that whoever escapes the 3rd Reich....does so with only a fraction of his money (Reichsfluchtsteuer).
Ironically, NS authorities would joyfully co-operate with US organisations. Because, as long as war and dominance over (Eastern) Europe was not in the cards, making jews emigrate seemed to be the only feasible way to get rid of them. However, as soon as the 2nd World War starts, I see the logistics of migration to become too tough for any massive movements. Even if you still had charitable organisations organizing the flight of Jews, their work would have become extremely difficult.
So let us assume that a friendly US legislation increases the willingness of Germany's jews to board a ship, I expect that at least a quarter of them remains in the homeland no matter what. Instead of 250,000 , about 375,000 leave - but most of them to the United States. Let us say, 85%.
So we talk about little more than 325,000 persons over the course of seven years (1933-39). Basically, New York City could swallow them up. To be honest, I do not see any actual settlement projects apart from a few quasi-Zionist projects. Why should the United States treat them like Native Americans and basically relegate them to reservations? Very few of these immigrants would be used to living on the countryside. Their professional expertise would make them seek employment in the metropolises of the CONUS.
***
In 1938/39 we can add numbers some by including Austria, then the Czech Republic, into the addition. The general situation would however be the same. Readiness to leave Austria, where the "frog in hot water effect" didn't occur, but Nazis terror reached Vienna (where almost 90% of Austria's jews lived) overnight with full force, seemed to be higher. 120,000 of a bit more than 200,000 could emigrate within less than two years.
So that makes a realistic number of 150,000.
In the Czech Protectorate, only 26,000 of 120,000 Jews could flee. Here we could see a significant increase, optimistically perhaps to 80,000. Don't forget: the window of opportunity here (after March 15th, 1939) is very narror!
Given the time pressure, the US are the destination of 90% of these refugeees. So we add ca. 210.000 people to 325.000 .... 535.000.
***
Now here is a big question. What does the legistlation making an exception from the quota system of the day look like? Does it only refer to immigration from the Reich? Because then we talk about exactly these three numbers above.
Or does it mean that Jews can come to America no matter what or no matter where from? Frankly, I would assume that to be a hot political topic. Would Tevje be as welcome as Albert Einstein?
IMHO, a legislation which allows a substantial number of Eastern European Jews to flee before Wehrmacht, SS and Einsatzgruppen overrun their home (and afterwards, it is too late for saving more than a few - remember, about half of the Holocaust has already been done before the extermination camps opened their gates) is only feasible in a scenario when the tightening of US immigration laws in the 1920s either a) doesn't happen or b) gets strongly scaled down / aboslished at the start of FDR's presidency.
This, however, would let a lot of the trends of the 1900s and early 1910s continue: a generally strong immigration, increasingly from Eastern and Southern Europe... not just Jews. Leaving the Soviet Union would prove difficult (though it doesn't seem to have been absolutely impossible), so if such a measure saves European Jews, we mainly talk about Polish, Rumanians, Hungarians.
So, the earlier immigration restrictions get lifted, the less Jews the Nazis will find in Eastern Europe. But I agree that it is hard to imagine the combined numbers of 1933-1945 Jewish immigration rise above 1,000,000.
FDR was not looking at Puerto Rico,he was looking at places within the continental United States it would have been easy to supply and get people to
I think FDR realized that untapped economic potential of Alaska and Montana and figured a million immigrants split between them would improve the US economy
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
I’m remembering it was one particular right-wing radio host who really turned Cuba against the ship.
MS St. Louis - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So, maybe he goes into sports “journalism” (his version!) ? ?
The problem with allowing this to happen (at least as the thinking went) was that it would be tacit permission for other State Actors to do the same thing and set an unwelcome precedent for the future.
Hence the resistance by Western Nations to accept, in this case, Jewish people from Germany during the 30s.
Hence the resistance by Western Nations to accept, in this case, Jewish people from Germany during the 30s.
A bigger problems was the massive unemployment that was everywhere. There was no way a population suffering double digit unemployment for lengthy periods of time is going to be happy of having huge numbers of people coming into the country making the problem that much worse.
I think the cap would have been about one million. I have a hard time seeing any way for six million Jews to all be saved. The issue as others have mentioned is where to put them and how this would effect the economy. Some have mentioned Alaska and I think this might work well, but you'll have to find a way for them to be employed. Maybe put them in some of the western states, but I don't know how they'd feel about Jews setting in the Great Plains and Mountain west. Granted if you spread them out across the US, you might be able to make it work. You also might see them not so much settled on a reservation but allowed to move to certain places. Most would go to cities apart from some zionist type projects.
I think you may be surprised, particularly in the late 1930's and even up to today there are counites in Mississippi with more Jews than Catholics...
McPherson
Banned
Breckinridge Long | The Holocaust Encyclopedia
One has to get rid of rat bastards like him and somehow also deal with the Unreconstructed Confederates who infested the American political class of the 1930s.Ever wonder why I have a virulent dislike of Woodrow Wilson?
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Would there be any interest if I made a new thread based on the Panay War timeline's description of a U.S. that opened up its gates not just to fleeing Jewish refugees, but basically all the refugees in the lead up to WWII?
I guess it's ASB given American racial attitudes at the time. That timeline at least has the excuse of being an intentional dystopia with an authoritarian government that's pragmatic about boosting manpower.
What if the U.S. just about let anyone in during wartime?
Dark America and the Panay War timelines by Scott Palter from Changing the Times are two immense Ameriwank scenarios where the U.S. goes all authoritarian during or before WWII, and manages to defeat all of Eurasia with the help of the Brits, the Irish, the Norse, the Lusophones, and plucky...
www.alternatehistory.com
I guess it's ASB given American racial attitudes at the time. That timeline at least has the excuse of being an intentional dystopia with an authoritarian government that's pragmatic about boosting manpower.
Oh totally but even very small numbers of migration was resisted
For example the MS St Louis is a case in point