WI: United States Without the Vietnam War

Perhaps no Teen-series fighters in their current (in the case of the F-14 past) form. The air war over Vietnam was a rude awakening for the US Air Force and Navy.

Dog-fighting was back on the table even though F-4's could in theory destroy a target at 20 miles with a Sparrow - hence the lack of a gun on USAF C and D models and all USN ones. Yet technologically obsolete MiG-17's and 19's sometimes successfully harassed their more advanced US adversaries.

This led in part to US Navy Top Gun and USAF Aggressor dissimilar air combat training. Not to mention US and Western fighter design philosophy turning away from sheer speed (YF-12, F-108) to more agility (F-15, F-16).

Without Vietnam I guess we'd see perhaps see further developments of types such as the F-106 rather than the F-15.

Stealth may also have been a development which comes along at a much later date with no USAF and USN types being blown out of the sky by SA-2's.
 
I think that without Vietnam the late 60s are more similiar to early 60s.
Said this, the context is very important.
In this ATL without Vietnam who is the President?
Nixon have won in 1960,or JFK is elected?
JFK survive and have two terms,or we have still November 22 1963 in Dallas and LBJ as next President?
Is probable that Nixon in white house untill 1961 help to keep more quiet and conservative the 60s.
But also with JFK President in 1961-1969 i see a relatively quiet scenario.
 
I think that without Vietnam the late 60s are more similiar to early 60s.
Said this, the context is very important.
In this ATL without Vietnam who is the President?
Nixon have won in 1960,or JFK is elected?
JFK survive and have two terms,or we have still November 22 1963 in Dallas and LBJ as next President?
Is probable that Nixon in white house untill 1961 help to keep more quiet and conservative the 60s.
But also with JFK President in 1961-1969 i see a relatively quiet scenario.
Vietnam did not effect US politics until 1966. So we would have the same as OTL presidents until 1969. ITTL Johnson starts his 3rd term that year.
 
How about JFK chooses Albert Gore Sr as his VP instead of Johnson? Gore was on Kennedy's shortlist and would draw southern support to the ticket (and you can bet Johnson will be campaigning just as hard for JFK in this scenario; he is, after all, the Senate Majority Leader and will want to maintain his control there). The upshot? Gore in OTL was ferociously anti-American intervention in Vietnam. So much so that it ended up costing him his Senate seat a few years later.

A Gore Presidency would certainly stay out of 'Nam.
 
1966 probably sees some Republican gains, but only in reaction to the great Democratic wave of 1964. The Democrats probably retain a supermajority in both the House and the Senate. In 1968, Nixon probably doesn't run, as his reputation in the Republican Party was only fixed because he campaigned for many Republicans and got quite a few of them elected in '66. Someone else, like Rockefeller or some other moderate wins the Republican nomination. On the Democratic side, President Johnson, still extremely popular, sees an easy nomination. In the campaign, the Republican Party struggles to define itself and create a coherent campaign message other than "inflation is bad", not nearly enough to create a campaign out of. Johnson campaigns on the strong economy and the success of civil rights and he wins by a comfortable margin. In his third term, he probably fumbles and makes some other big mistake, but he is seen quite positively in the present due to the good economy and for passing civil rights. Some future president probably fucks up and brings the US into a huge war.
 
1966 probably sees some Republican gains, but only in reaction to the great Democratic wave of 1964. The Democrats probably retain a supermajority in both the House and the Senate. In 1968, Nixon probably doesn't run, as his reputation in the Republican Party was only fixed because he campaigned for many Republicans and got quite a few of them elected in '66. Someone else, like Rockefeller or some other moderate wins the Republican nomination. On the Democratic side, President Johnson, still extremely popular, sees an easy nomination. In the campaign, the Republican Party struggles to define itself and create a coherent campaign message other than "inflation is bad", not nearly enough to create a campaign out of. Johnson campaigns on the strong economy and the success of civil rights and he wins by a comfortable margin. In his third term, he probably fumbles and makes some other big mistake, but he is seen quite positively in the present due to the good economy and for passing civil rights. Some future president probably fucks up and brings the US into a huge war.

Would Johnson even survive the full term? In OTL, he died two days after Nixon's second inauguration. My guess is that Nixon, if he doesn't run in '68, campaigns for people in 1970 and runs in '72 against Reagan. Whoever wins this fight for the GOP nomination is anyone's guess (I lean towards Reagan), but whoever wins it defeats Humphrey or Bobby Kennedy (if he doesn't get assassinated) in '72.
 
Would Johnson even survive the full term? In OTL, he died two days after Nixon's second inauguration. My guess is that Nixon, if he doesn't run in '68, campaigns for people in 1970 and runs in '72 against Reagan. Whoever wins this fight for the GOP nomination is anyone's guess (I lean towards Reagan), but whoever wins it defeats Humphrey or Bobby Kennedy (if he doesn't get assassinated) in '72.

After leaving office, Johnson began to smoke and drink heavily, which contributed to his final heart attack. Apparently, his daughter was worried enough to speak to him about it, and he said that he had devoted himself to the nation for how many years and he was going to do this for himself now. In other words, he gave up. Johnson was never a proponent of clean living, but he was willing, and able, to do so as long as his ambition to become/remain President was still present. Once he gave up the Presidency, he became a very broken man. In this TL with his successes, he will keep himself in good shape.
 
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