WI: United Scandinavia

Having Bernstorff have a greater influence on politics would probably be just the thing that could have made this union a reality. He seems to have been quite opposed to the constant warfare between Denmark and Sweden, and his reforms would make the two countries more alike in internal affairs.

Let's say Bernstorff lives a few more years. That could prevent 'Slaget på Reden' in 1801, which might put Denmark on course for an alliance with Britain later.

Such a success might also make Frederick see more value in having competent people assisting him in his rule, reducing his absolutist streak.


Probably of more immediate value would be to have the dowager queen Juliane Marie die right after having disposed of Strueense; that might leave the reins to Bernstorff without the ever present opposition at court.

Yeah, there are a lot things that have to fall in just the right order, with a king ready to seize the opportunity, but it's probably not completely impossible.

The total population of the three kingdoms would be a bit less than 5 million, which is about half the population of Prussia, a quarter of Great Britain's, or a sixth of France's. Not enough to really throw their weight around, but probably enough to be taken seriously as well. A perfect size for creating stability in Northern Europe.


If the Brits are willing to have the one nation rule both sides of the entry to the Baltic but then the Ottomans did just that...

If the countries stick together, and the Norwegians and Swedes don't feel the need to run off to America, the combined population of the three countries would also be a bit higher than it is today. Had the population of Sweden grown at the same speed as that of Denmark between 1800 and now, the population would be a whole 5 million people greater. Maybe that's not realistic, but Scandinavia would probably be more populous, like a bigger version of the Netherlands.


It might be even bigger; read during researching the If you wait you may become King of Sweden that total Scandinavian migration to the USA amounted to about a million; in which case you may if avoiding the famine of Norway during 1807-15 which you will ITTL advance the population increase by say a decade following 1815; by and large!
Of course losing Holstein will be a loss but OTL the 1864 loss was a benefit to Danish industrialization so would probably be here too.
 
It might be even bigger; read during researching the If you wait you may become King of Sweden that total Scandinavian migration to the USA amounted to about a million; in which case you may if avoiding the famine of Norway during 1807-15 which you will ITTL advance the population increase by say a decade following 1815; by and large! Of course losing Holstein will be a loss but OTL the 1864 loss was a benefit to Danish industrialization so would probably be here too.

This also applies to Finland whether or not it is a part of the united Scandinavian state. Finland saw heavy migration to America during the 19th century, for example from Osthrobothnia, and a booming Scandinavian state might mean that those people would rather be gainfully employed where they live (if Finland is part of "Scandinavia") or would just make the short trip across the Baltic to work in Sweden (if not).

OTOH, having a united Scandinavian state does not in itself necessarily mean there will be more jobs and food available for a seriously increased population and even guest workers... If one thinks it would, then one would have to explain exactly why is Scandinavia growing economically so much better than the same areas did IOTL.


[QUOTE="yourworstnightmare]Well, Finland is technically not a part of Scandinavia (not geographically, and more than 90% of the Finns are not Scandinavian). So it should be possible to form Scandinavia without Finland. [/QUOTE]

I think the chances would be even better without Finland, for stability and continuity. Having/retaining Finland would be a continuing point of contention with Russia, and might mean one or even several wars with the big eastern neighbour during the 19th century. Wars that would be liable to cause political quarrels among the component parts of this "Scandinavia" and in the worst case prompt the union to be dissolved, one way or the other.
 
OTOH, having a united Scandinavian state does not in itself necessarily mean there will be more jobs and food available for a seriously increased population and even guest workers... If one thinks it would, then one would have to explain exactly why is Scandinavia growing economically so much better than the same areas did IOTL.


Of course its not a given but Denmark OTL did see a boom in agriculture post 1820 and in industry post 1864. The industrial boom did suck up Swedish labour to a great extend - think "Pelle Erobreren" with Scanians going to Bornholm for work; a lot others went to Copenhagen and Sjaelland.
I used a number of the statistics in If you wait... ;)

In the years before WWI Denmark had an annual influx for about eight months a year of Polish farm hands of 13,000.

In a union Sweden might benefit - depending upon the ruling class of course - on the Danish system of local farmers cooperation which was initiated by Holstein and Molkte etc. Of course pre-1866 things may or not be different in Sweden politically wise but then ideas may fly across the Oeresound... Imagine agricultural development in Smaaland on a much wider scale because the small farmers a poor peoples get an incentive to actually try and make their life better.
I'm not saying it would but it could work. :)
 
Let's say Bernstorff lives a few more years. That could prevent 'Slaget på Reden' in 1801, which might put Denmark on course for an alliance with Britain later.

Such a success might also make Frederick see more value in having competent people assisting him in his rule, reducing his absolutist streak.


Yeah, there are a lot things that have to fall in just the right order, with a king ready to seize the opportunity, but it's probably not completely impossible.

If this lead to the unification, would the first and second Schleswig wars still happen, and if they do not, that is even more people for the United Scandinavia :p
 
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