WI: Undeclared Naval War Between NATO and USSR in 1983?

A skirmish between the Soviet Navy and NATO warships in July of 1983 gets out of hand and leads to the sinking of two Soviet Destroyers the Petropavlovsk and the Vladivostok.

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The US has the USS Kidd Sunk

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West Germany has the FGS Rommel sunk.

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The USS Iowa is badly damaged along with two other Soviet destroyers. Andropov blames NATO and gives the ok for an undeclared naval war against NATO warships on the high seas.

What happens next?
 
The Red Navy over the next few months makes its acquaintance with Davy Jones

NATO navies get a near unlimited budget for new ships
 
There are very, very, VERY good reasons things like this didn't happen. In 1983 the US has about 30,000 such reasons, and the USSR has about 40,000.

A tit-for-tat sinking - you sunk one of our ships, so we sink one of yours, neither of us admits it happened/was on purpose - that's one thing. There are rumors stuff like that happened, although I have no idea if they're true. But an "undeclared naval war"? That's a whole different matter.

The Soviets are not going to escalate this situation in that way. They'll demand apologies, they'll demand compensation, they'll move troops around, they'll take their revenge in other ways. Maybe a US airliner will "stray into Soviet airspace" and there will be a tragic accident. But they are not going to declare open season on the US Navy, because they have nothing to gain from it and literally everything to lose.

And, if for some reason they feel they have to go further than that - if they're scared or angry enough to start a war - then they're going to start a war. A real one. And, at that point, I believe it's best to consult Protect & Survive, because that will be a good approximation of what happens next.
 
A skirmish between the Soviet Navy and NATO warships in July of 1983 gets out of hand and leads to the sinking of two Soviet Destroyers the Petropavlovsk and the Vladivostok.
The US has the USS Kidd Sunk
West Germany has the FGS Rommel sunk.
The USS Iowa is badly damaged along with two other Soviet destroyers. Andropov blames NATO and gives the ok for an undeclared naval war against NATO warships on the high seas.

What happens next?

The scenario Asnys is a very likely one IMO.

There are very, very, VERY good reasons things like this didn't happen. In 1983 the US has about 30,000 such reasons, and the USSR has about 40,000.

A tit-for-tat sinking - you sunk one of our ships, so we sink one of yours, neither of us admits it happened/was on purpose - that's one thing. There are rumors stuff like that happened, although I have no idea if they're true. But an "undeclared naval war"? That's a whole different matter.

The Soviets are not going to escalate this situation in that way. They'll demand apologies, they'll demand compensation, they'll move troops around, they'll take their revenge in other ways. Maybe a US airliner will "stray into Soviet airspace" and there will be a tragic accident. But they are not going to declare open season on the US Navy, because they have nothing to gain from it and literally everything to lose.

And, if for some reason they feel they have to go further than that - if they're scared or angry enough to start a war - then they're going to start a war. A real one. And, at that point, I believe it's best to consult Protect & Survive, because that will be a good approximation of what happens next.
 
Move this back to 69 and maybe you have a different story. 1983? No way in hell the Soviets are going to risk challenging the US navy short of attempting nuclear anihilation.
 
Move this back to 69 and maybe you have a different story. 1983? No way in hell the Soviets are going to risk challenging the US navy short of attempting nuclear anihilation.

An undeclared naval war comes in many levels, it doesn't have to mean it starts after this as an open season on any NATO and Soviet warships (but, it can mean that). It can mean a tit for tat sinking of warships that gets further and further out of hand and becomes an a larger and larger undeclared naval war.
 
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There have been rumors (and not just for conspiracy mongers) that a Soviet ballistic missile submarine (Hotel class) that was sunk near Hawai in 1968 was sunk due to a collision with a U.S. SSN (the former navy diver who wrote "Red November" believes it) and that the Soviets deliberately sank the U.S.S. Scorpion in 1969 in retaliation.

I would think more of 1987 when two Soviet ships deliberately rammed the U.S.S. Yorktown and U.S.S. Caron in the Black Sea. What if the rammings were far more destructive to both sides and led to an exchange of fire.
 
There have been rumors (and not just for conspiracy mongers) that a Soviet ballistic missile submarine (Hotel class) that was sunk near Hawai in 1968 was sunk due to a collision with a U.S. SSN (the former navy diver who wrote "Red November" believes it) and that the Soviets deliberately sank the U.S.S. Scorpion in 1969 in retaliation.

I would think more of 1987 when two Soviet ships deliberately rammed the U.S.S. Yorktown and U.S.S. Caron in the Black Sea. What if the rammings were far more destructive to both sides and led to an exchange of fire.

Gorbachev leader at that time almost certainly would work to reduce tensions and would not order retaliatory attacks. Andropov was a hard core Cold War warrior and very well might have ordered retaliatory attacks.
 
It should be noted that under Reagan and Navy Secretary John Lehman the US Navy conducted live fire exercises adjacent to Soviet waters. (Source: "Fall From Glory" by Gregory Vistica.)
 
There have been rumors (and not just for conspiracy mongers) that a Soviet ballistic missile submarine (Hotel class) that was sunk near Hawai in 1968 was sunk due to a collision with a U.S. SSN (the former navy diver who wrote "Red November" believes it) and that the Soviets deliberately sank the U.S.S. Scorpion in 1969 in retaliation.

I would think more of 1987 when two Soviet ships deliberately rammed the U.S.S. Yorktown and U.S.S. Caron in the Black Sea. What if the rammings were far more destructive to both sides and led to an exchange of fire.
Option A: Soviet and American leaders embark in a course of action which is likely to end in an nuclear holocaust
Option B: Soviet and American leaders embark in a course of action which ends in diplomats defusing the conflict and, maybe, some sort of compensation being paid.
 
Gorbachev leader at that time almost certainly would work to reduce tensions and would not order retaliatory attacks. Andropov was a hard core Cold War warrior and very well might have ordered retaliatory attacks.

Well, if you believe the rumors, Brezhnev never approved or even knew about the retaliation against the Scorpion either. Admiral Gorshkov (father of the modern Soviet Navy) simply ordered the operation on his own.

It should be noted that under Reagan and Navy Secretary John Lehman the US Navy conducted live fire exercises adjacent to Soviet waters. (Source: "Fall From Glory" by Gregory Vistica.)

That is a great book for its details about the massive U.S. naval exercises in the early 1980s.

And for Secretary John Lehman putting a 20 dollar bill in the vagina of a hooker using his mouth at the infamous Tailhook Convention.

But the U.S.S. Long Beach (in 1985 IIRC) did fire a Tomahawk cruise missile deliberately that missed a Soviet naval base by only a few degrees.
 
2 Soviet ships and 2 NATO ships sunk, with 2 more Soviet ships and 1 NATO ship badly damaged?

This either quickly escalates into full blown war or the politicians manage to stop things from going any further. No in between is possible.

In the case that the politicians do stop it from becoming WWIII there are going to be some interesting political repercussions in both the West and the USSR.
 
Whoever put a fricking Battleship in a position to get damaged is court marshaled

Possibly the captain of the Iowa has to face a court of inquiry for letting those DD's survive after they shot at him and sank a US Naval Vessel and an allied vessel
 
Why does the OP claim that two Soviet destroyers are sunk but pictured is one of the three Slava class missile cruisers?

These ships, each over 12,000 tons were arguably the third most important surface units in the Soviet navy. Right behind the Kirov class missile cruisers and the Kiev class carriers/missile cruisers.

By the way, anyone remember that episode of JAG (Cowboys and Cossacks) where a Russian ship captain on his last cruise before he is forced to retire and his ship scrapped, is part of a wargame with his long time American navy rival and decides to attack for real? He fires a single cruise missile that the U.S. shoots down and the U.S. ship puts a Harpoon into the Soviet ship.

The Russian captain ends up scuttling his ship after giving the crew a chance to escape.

The Russian captains final message for Harmon Rabb to give to the American captain is interesting:

"Tell the captain I will miss our games. We were never friends but in some ways we were the best of enemies..."

Finally, in 1983, Andropov was so far gone ultra paranoid and near death you could almost see him ordering something like in the OP.
 
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