WI: UN Forces are tipped off about Chinese counterattack

kernals12

Banned
From what I've read, the Chinese attack on UN forces in Korea in November 1950 was a complete surprise. It forced the coalition to withdraw greatly down the Korean peninsula and turned what looked to be a brief conflict into a grueling 3 year long war that ended with an armistice and gave us the divided Korea we know and love today. So what if a spy in China was able to warn about the attack? If the allies had been prepared, would North Korea be smaller today?
 
MacArthur had not just forewarning but hard evidence the Chinese were intervening and flat out ignored it. He would do the same thing in ATL.
 
MacArthur had not just forewarning but hard evidence the Chinese were intervening and flat out ignored it. He would do the same thing in ATL.

Yes, definitely not his finest hour. Part of me wonders if he did it deliberately in the hope that Truman would let him use nukes on the Communist?
 
Yes, definitely not his finest hour. Part of me wonders if he did it deliberately in the hope that Truman would let him use nukes on the Communist?

It’s far from impossible. He had his own axe to grind and by God was he going to grind it.
 
It’s far from impossible. He had his own axe to grind and by God was he going to grind it.

Which, if true, for me damns him to an even lower pit of Hell than where is. The millions such an act would kill .... words fail me.
 
Which, if true, for me damns him to an even lower pit of Hell than where is. The millions such an act would kill .... words fail me.
To be fair - a bit of hyperbole there. Total war deaths are around the 1.2 million and many of those were pre-Chinese intervention
 
MacArthur had knowledge and did nothing. Perhaps if the front line troops had definite proof the attack would have turned out different, makes it a whole lot harder for MacArthur to feign ignorance and he would have to take some steps to prepare for the assault.
 
I did not know this about MacArthur. Thank god Truman fired him.
Yeah, there's also the fact half the reason they sent him to the Philippines was it was the assend of nowhere, so nobody figured anything would go wrong. And after his "handling" of the Bonus Army...

Anyway, Japan attacks, he fucks up the defense (Here's a hint, when you receive word along the line of "AIR RAID PEARL HARBOR THIS IS NO DRILL", leaving your aircraft on the runway is a pretty bad idea. Yet somehow is able to parlay that into a grand heroic gesture.
 

longsword14

Banned
I did not know this about MacArthur. Thank god Truman fired him.
Read Appleman's first book on the war. It is mentioned that everybody not MacArthur was nervous about stringing themselves so far ahead with evidence of growing numbers in front of them.
These were not third hand accounts either, his own intelligence personnel had warned him.
 
Read Appleman's first book on the war. It is mentioned that everybody not MacArthur was nervous about stringing themselves so far ahead with evidence of growing numbers in front of them.
These were not third hand accounts either, his own intelligence personnel had warned him.

The blame goes around. Lt Gen Almond commanding X Corps flew into his forward units the day before the Chinese counter attack. Col McLean protested Almonds orders and asked to pull back & dig in his regiment combat team. Almond forbade it and emphasized his order to continue attacking north the next day. He then radioed McLeans commander at the 7th Inf Div HQ & reiterated the order. That afternoon the same scene was repeated at the forward CP of the 1st Marine Division. Almond gave the Division commander Maj Gen Smith a direct order to continue advancing north. When Almond departed Smith disobeyed the order & directed his battalions to dig in on the high ground, then told his staff to prepare a plan for withdrawal. The next day Col McLean was killed & his regiment massacred over the next two days. Smith managed to preserve his forward regiment & methodically withdraw the division. I've never run across any indication Almond thought about taking judicial action against Smith for disobeying the order.

One of Almonds peers remarked later that Almond attacked when it was the right thing, and attacked when it wasn't.
 
I've never run across any indication Almond thought about taking judicial action against Smith for disobeying the order.
Considering how poor their relations were and Almond's reputation that half surprises me, although I guess even he was able to see that any charges he tried to file would have been laughed out the room. That whole situation was weird though, IIRC whilst commanding X Corps he double hatted continuing to serve as MacArthur's Chief of Staff which must have put his commander in an interesting position.
 
Getting back to the OP, it depends on how soon the pending attack is recognized. The largest and best warning came a week earlier when NKPA and Chinese advance guards made some spoiling attacks to slow the UN advance. The main force of the Chinese army were not in their intended positions & they needed a few extra days. In that case the UN might cease its headlong advance and start a through reconisance of the way ahead. That and allowing the following echelons to close up and setting up at least a hasty defense reduces the losses of the initial 24 - 48 hours, reduces infiltration & flank marches, & allows better organized retreats as the pressure mounts.

Reacting just 24 to 48 hours early, as was the case with Smith and the Marine Division increases the ability to make a fighting withdrawal.
 
Yeah, there's also the fact half the reason they sent him to the Philippines was it was the assend of nowhere, so nobody figured anything would go wrong. And after his "handling" of the Bonus Army...

Anyway, Japan attacks, he fucks up the defense (Here's a hint, when you receive word along the line of "AIR RAID PEARL HARBOR THIS IS NO DRILL", leaving your aircraft on the runway is a pretty bad idea. Yet somehow is able to parlay that into a grand heroic gesture.

all of that is either flat out untrue or based on untruths. 'they' didn't send him to the phils, he was hired by phil gov't after retiring from army. 'his' handling of the bonus army(ordered by CinC) was superb; after being ordered to withdraw logistic support, i'll add. the main reason some AC were on the runway is because they'd been airborne throughout the day(here's a hint, AC need more fuel, occasionally & can't load ordnance while in the air).
 
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