WI: Umayyad victory at the Battle of Toulouse

basically what is says in the title, what if the Arab forces had managed a decisive victory at the Battle of Toulouse? Will Aquitaine be conquered? How does this effect the rise of Charles Martel and his dynasty? With southern France secured is is possible for the Caliphate to invade Italy?
 
basically what is says in the title, what if the Arab forces had managed a decisive victory at the Battle of Toulouse? Will Aquitaine be conquered? How does this effect the rise of Charles Martel and his dynasty? With southern France secured is is possible for the Caliphate to invade Italy?

I believe the Arab forces were only raiding in force. I don't think it was to conquer, although a victory may lead to Aquataine to be conquered.
 
I believe the Arab forces were only raiding in force. I don't think it was to conquer, although a victory may lead to Aquataine to be conquered.

That.
An Aquitaine conquest at most would probably have been transient.
The Caliphate in the 9th century did raid Italy and even set up emirates in Southern Italy, as well as conquering Sicily, of course.
 
Although, could the Hammer try and avenge his defeat and try and reconquer Aquitaine?

I'm not sure why Martel would try and avenge the defeat of Odo, he might publicly claim that he is trying to avenge Christendom, but I can see him wanting to conquer Aquitaine from the Arabs, just as he had wanted to conquer Aquitaine OTL, only under slightly different circumstances.
 
the historical record for the time/place is rather thin beyond the Frankish propaganda of winning what was probably but a glorified skirmish (Tours)
but I don't see anything preventing Charlie from meeting the Muslims in battle.
 
the historical record for the time/place is rather thin beyond the Frankish propaganda of winning what was probably but a glorified skirmish (Tours)
but I don't see anything preventing Charlie from meeting the Muslims in battle.

Toulouse wasn't like Tours though, it was a long drawn out siege of a well defended city that nearly ended in an Islamic victory had the duke of Aquitaine not managed to encircle the Muslim forces and the decimation of the large Arab invading force.
 
The source material for Toulouse though is so rife with exaggeration on both sides that only agree that it was a disaster for the Muslims. We truly don't know how large the invading force was.
In answer to the question re. the POD, I have another question: what were the resources theoretically available to the Muslims for campaigning in Aquitaine and beyond?
 
Opportunity can change a simple raid into an invasion. If the Franks were really beaten afterward and had not the Arab Leader died then they may have seized southern France.
 
It depends on both the size and the intentions of the invading forces. If a Razzia was intended, it would imply smaller and more spread-out forces. If there was intent to hold and/or colonize the land, forces would be larger, one would think.
Again, what were the military resources available? Do we really know? Historians don't seem to have a consensus on the Muslim intent, as well.
Narbonne seem to have held greater interest to the Muslims (which was held for 40 odd years by the Emirate of Cordoba. Control of the Mediterranean littoral was probably a greater priority.
 
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The conquest of Aquataine might actually allow the muslims to secure the pyrenees, and cut of the christian kingdoms in Nothern Iberia, thus removing a major torn in their side.
 

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With some more forces used, the Arabs could have taken Gaul. In this case, they probably would have turned it into a second emirate of Cordoba.

Of course, this doesn't mean that Muslim rule of western Europe would have lasted forever. Just as the people from the Middle East hated the Roman culture forced upon them, the people in western Europe would have hated their new rulers despite - or because - of their higher level of culture.
 
With some more forces used, the Arabs could have taken Gaul. In this case, they probably would have turned it into a second emirate of Cordoba.

Of course, this doesn't mean that Muslim rule of western Europe would have lasted forever. Just as the people from the Middle East hated the Roman culture forced upon them, the people in western Europe would have hated their new rulers despite - or because - of their higher level of culture.

I would love to see that timeline.
 
With some more forces used, the Arabs could have taken Gaul. In this case, they probably would have turned it into a second emirate of Cordoba.

Of course, this doesn't mean that Muslim rule of western Europe would have lasted forever. Just as the people from the Middle East hated the Roman culture forced upon them, the people in western Europe would have hated their new rulers despite - or because - of their higher level of culture.

In the very least this makes Spain near permanently Arab. Without the threat of French intervention means the Asturians and Galicians are fucked.
 
Mix of both. Largely Berber at the time of the initial invasion of Hispania and influxes of both later. The heavy cavalry employed by the muslim commanders in the invasions of France was definitely Arab.
 
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