WI Ulster and the rest of Ireland were united? (during the Troubles)

[theHombre]

With my irish heritage, I was just wondering if there was a way to unite the motherland (say, during the Troubles)

 

[Macragge1]

With my irish heritage, I was just wondering if there was a way to unite the motherland (say, during the Troubles)

Not really, no.

 

[Garrison]

With my irish heritage, I was just wondering if there was a way to unite the motherland (say, during the Troubles)

Not so long as you have a majority of Protestants in the North.

 

[theHombre]

wow

that was shot down fast

 

[Falkenburg]

Would have been even faster if I'd seen it.

Falkenburg

 

[sparky42]

It's more than just religion though. At the time many Catholics weren't thrilled with the idea remember the Republic would have been far more conservative than the norm in the North. Just a quick example contraception was still banned.

Also given the economic situation there wouldn't be any attraction either, the UK funds the North's economy and there's a huge public service that the Republic wouldn't have been able to fund or support the existing services in the North at that time.

 

[theHombre]

Irish people,like me seem to be thick skined in alot of way.....like stick with our religons

 

[Vingilótë]

Same thing as the Troubles, really, except, you have the Irish Army in Belfast,and this time, the majority of the locals really hate the soldiers.

 

[Macragge1]

Same thing as the Troubles, really, except, you have the Irish Army in Belfast,and this time, the majority of the locals really hate the soldiers.

All credit to the Irish Army for getting to Belfast with no tanks and like, three trainer aircraft.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

All credit to the Irish Army for getting to Belfast with no tanks and like, three trainer aircraft.

Probably as prisoners of the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal ulster Constabulary.

 

[Vingilótë]

You're...you're not joking, are you?

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Probably as prisoners of the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal ulster Constabulary.

Hey, they're still better then the UDR, they make the little militias assing about in American backwaters look professional.

The Irish army is simply not made for an invasion, there is a specific reason why it's called the Irish Defence Force.

That does not however mean that as soon as anyone fires a shot at them they shit themselves and surrender, they instead fire back, from a concealed position in the hills, with 20 of their mates. And they don't miss either.

And to illustrate my point, Jadotville muthafuckas.

 

[Ulster]

With my irish heritage, I was just wondering if there was a way to unite the motherland (say, during the Troubles)

During the Troubles? No. It is, however, depressingly easy to butterfly partition and the attendant crappyness for Ireland earlier in the century

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

During the Troubles? No. It is, however, depressingly easy to butterfly partition and the attendant crappyness for Ireland earlier in the century

Easy? Anytime I've every put forward a POD for unity it gets attacked from all sides.

Care to give an example?

 

[Ulster]

Easy? Anytime I've every put forward a POD for unity it gets attacked from all sides.

Care to give an example?

Well, I may have misspoken a tad - I should amend that to "Partition as in OTL". But we could have Franz Ferdinand's driver not take a wrong turn. World War One is delayed, for convenience's sake let us say a year. The Third Home Rule Bill is not delayed and the Unionists, facing the prospect of thirty two county Home Rule, are forced to accept one of the compromise plans (four county exclusion, six county exclusion, nine county exclusion, temporary or permanent, autonomy within Ireland etc.). And hey presto, bicameral Irish Parliament in Dublin with minimal pointless uprisings, civil wars, rebellions, paramilitary dickwaving or general depressing unnecessary bloodletting.

Though admittedly it does require the participants to compromise and act a little sensibly, and with that lot this might be a tad ASB

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Well, I may have misspoken a tad - I should amend that to "Partition as in OTL". But we could have Franz Ferdinand's driver not take a wrong turn. World War One is delayed, for convenience's sake let us say a year. The Third Home Rule Bill is not delayed and the Unionists, facing the prospect of thirty two county Home Rule, are forced to accept one of the compromise plans (four county exclusion, six county exclusion, nine county exclusion, temporary or permanent, autonomy within Ireland etc.). And hey presto, bicameral Irish Parliament in Dublin with minimal pointless uprisings, civil wars, rebellions, paramilitary dickwaving or general depressing unnecessary bloodletting.

Though admittedly it does require the participants to compromise and act a little sensibly, and with that lot this might be a tad ASB

Or what about WW1 is delayed, Ulster is restricted to four-counties because Britain calls them out on the UVF, Carson and Craig take the bait and "invade" Fermanagh and Tyrone, and they then get slapped down by the British army and revamped Irish Volunteers.

 

[Height of Ignorance]

Collins surrviving would have had interesting butterflies, not sure if a united Ireland would have happened but it would have been possible. Less hatred towards Catholics and non-Angilcans would in turn lead to less resentment on both sides. Provided of course that republicanism/some sort of indenpentance movement stays alive.

 

[deathscompanion1]

Hey, they're still better then the UDR, they make the little militias assing about in American backwaters look professional.

The Irish army is simply not made for an invasion, there is a specific reason why it's called the Irish Defence Force.

That does not however mean that as soon as anyone fires a shot at them they shit themselves and surrender, they instead fire back, from a concealed position in the hills, with 20 of their mates. And they don't miss either.

And to illustrate my point, Jadotville muthafuckas.

It alway's suprises me that British posters expect the IDF to fight on their terms just after stating why it would be suicide. In a fair fight the Irish would lose which isnt much of an incentive to fight fair is it?

 

[Macragge1]

It alway's suprises me that British posters expect the IDF to fight on their terms just after stating why it would be suicide. In a fair fight the Irish would lose which isnt much of an incentive to fight fair is it?

How would the Irish fare better by fighting unfairly?

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

It alway's suprises me that British posters expect the IDF to fight on their terms just after stating why it would be suicide. In a fair fight the Irish would lose which isnt much of an incentive to fight fair is it?

Exactly. The airforce and armoured units are for use overseas under the auspice of the UN, where we'll be providing back-up to superior air and armour powers.

I've seen IDF manouveres and I've looked into what they do in the training, it's all about guerilla warfare. Establishing ammo dumps, hiding out in the countryside and such.

How would the Irish fare better by fighting unfairly?

Well how did the IRA not get wiped during the War of Independence and the Troubles? They fought "unfairly" by Britains standards, by not piling into tractors and jeeps and trying to assault fortified positions.

Guerilla warfare, the art of teaching great powers humility.