WI: UKIP won either of the Eastleigh/Heywood by-elections?

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Had James gotten in 2013, I think it would have been plausible to see an earlier and larger migration from the Conservatives to UKIP, and with someone like James in the Commons UKIP would have had more Parliamentary legitamacy (James not being totally mental or totally shit). Though with the momentum of that win, I doubt that David Miliband would resign his seat and trigger the South Shield by-election. Wythenshawe and Sale East would be interesting.

Had Bickley won in 2014- achievable by shifting some resources from Clacton- then I think RedKIP would be a more tangible thing ITTL, but Ed Miliband would have also been removed as Leader.
 
Losing Heywood and Middleton would be very bad for Miliband - I believe 2014 was one of the Could've Been Toppled years.
Admittedly, virtually all of those years were Could've Been Toppled years according to Senior Labour Sources (TM), but I see your point.

But wrt the OP, it won't just be Reckless crossing the aisle that's for certain. I wonder who else in the Commons was considering the move but chickened out.
 
Admittedly, virtually all of those years were Could've Been Toppled years according to Senior Labour Sources (TM), but I see your point.

But wrt the OP, it won't just be Reckless crossing the aisle that's for certain. I wonder who else in the Commons was considering the move but chickened out.
Pursglove?
 
Admittedly, virtually all of those years were Could've Been Toppled years according to Senior Labour Sources (TM), but I see your point.

But wrt the OP, it won't just be Reckless crossing the aisle that's for certain. I wonder who else in the Commons was considering the move but chickened out.
I wonder if a victory in Heywood could lead to Labour defections to UKIP - there was speculation about Simon Danczuk at the time, and then there's Kate "TUV" Hoey...
 
I wonder if a victory in Heywood could lead to Labour defections to UKIP - there was speculation about Simon Danczuk at the time, and then there's Kate "TUV" Hoey...
That seems quite unlikely, especially Dancuck; we'd need to go through the list of MPs who voted Leave with a fine toothcomb.
 
But wrt the OP, it won't just be Reckless crossing the aisle that's for certain. I wonder who else in the Commons was considering the move but chickened out.
Phillip Hollobone seems likely, given that he went onto do a pact with UKIP where he would report to their members in his constituency once a week in exchange for them standing down, despite the fact there was no realistic chance of them making much of a difference even if Kettering werent pretty safely Tory.
 
Phillip Hollobone seems likely, given that he went onto do a pact with UKIP where he would report to their members in his constituency once a week in exchange for them standing down, despite the fact there was no realistic chance of them making much of a difference even if Kettering werent pretty safely Tory.
Bill Cash seems a distinct possibility - perhaps he might follow his son into UKIP?
 
Bill Cash seems a distinct possibility - perhaps he might follow his son into UKIP?
Cash seems an obvious one, but looking back on the rumour mill during that parliament, his name never really seriously came up as a potential defector. The ones generally cited were Hollobone, Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) David Nuttall (Bury North) Chris Kelly (Dudley South) Peter Bone (Wellingborough) Mark Pritchard (the Wrekin) and John Baron (Basildon and Billericay). I wouldn't rule out some joining from Labour as well. Maybe Kate Hoey or Simon Danczuk?
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Cash seems an obvious one, but looking back on the rumour mill during that parliament, his name never really seriously came up as a potential defector. The ones generally cited were Hollobone, Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) David Nuttall (Bury North) Chris Kelly (Dudley South) Peter Bone (Wellingborough) Mark Pritchard (the Wrekin) and John Baron (Basildon and Billericay). I wouldn't rule out some joining from Labour as well. Maybe Kate Hoey or Simon Danczuk?
I think Danczuk would only really join if he was in the situation he was in after the election; Hoey maybe, but I don't see her jumping unless the Council Group finally get her deselected or UKIP do really well in Labour seats in the election.
 
Heywood is a much easier race to win IMHO, as @shiftygiant has noted this would definitely buoy RedKIP, though I'm not sure as to whether Bickley could hold on at the GE, as I expect Labour would throw the metaphoric kitchen sink into the race.

In regards to Hoey, I could really only see her jump if she were to be deselected, and even then her re-election chances would not be solid - yes she has a good personal vote, as seen at this year's general election, but the Labour and Remain inclinations of Vauxhall could be too much for her to hold on in purple.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
In regards to Hoey, I could really only see her jump if she were to be deselected, and even then her re-election chances would not be solid - yes she has a good personal vote, as seen at this year's general election, but the Labour and Remain inclinations of Vauxhall could be too much for her to hold on in purple.
I have severe doubts that Labour could actually win in a scenario where they've deselected Hoey and she's fighting back, largely because of how toxic it would be, and because the only candidate the local association would have accepted would have been someone who was involved in the deselected (it was Steve Reed, IIRC, until he was picked up for Croydon North by-election), or someone parachuted in. Any other year and I would argue it could have been a decent LibDem pickup, but in 2015, if Labour suffer thanks to UKIP surging... I think Hoey could hold.

Bickley though yeah he doesn't really have much of a chance.
 
I have severe doubts that Labour could actually win in a scenario where they've deselected Hoey and she's fighting back, largely because of how toxic it would be, and because the only candidate the local association would have accepted would have been someone who was involved in the deselected (it was Steve Reed, IIRC, until he was picked up for Croydon North by-election), or someone parachuted in. Any other year and I would argue it could have been a decent LibDem pickup, but in 2015, if Labour suffer thanks to UKIP surging... I think Hoey could hold.

Bickley though yeah he doesn't really have much of a chance.

Interesting, I doubt the LDs would have put the effort or resources they did this year into Vauxhall, in 2015. I would tend to agree with you there - could we see the Tory vote squeezed in her favour?

Another interesting WI is if Nuttall didn't machine gun himself in the foot and actually won in Stoke-on-Trent earlier this year.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
It's worth remembering that with James or Bickley in Parliament, UKIP get the funds that Carswell turned down for the 2015 GE.
Interesting, I doubt the LDs would have put the effort or resources they did this year into Vauxhall, in 2015. I would tend to agree with you there - could we see the Tory vote squeezed in her favour?
Obviously, though to quickly address something, it's likely that a UKIP surge thanks to a Heywood by-election win would result in a number of LibDems holding their seats thanks to UKIP splitting the Conservative and Labour vote.

But I think that if Hoey is running as RedKIP, the Tories might have a shot in the election of gaining the seat by running a metropol europhile candidate. Though they could easily see Hoey, free of affiliation to Labour, pick up Tories who didn't vote for her because she was Labour.
Another interesting WI is if Nuttall didn't machine gun himself in the foot and actually won in Stoke-on-Trent earlier this year.
Probably no election if it gives UKIP a bounce, though this is more a chat WI at the moment.
 
I have severe doubts that Labour could actually win in a scenario where they've deselected Hoey and she's fighting back, largely because of how toxic it would be, and because the only candidate the local association would have accepted would have been someone who was involved in the deselected (it was Steve Reed, IIRC, until he was picked up for Croydon North by-election), or someone parachuted in. Any other year and I would argue it could have been a decent LibDem pickup, but in 2015, if Labour suffer thanks to UKIP surging... I think Hoey could hold.

Bickley though yeah he doesn't really have much of a chance.
There have been cases where MPs have been deselected and opted to run again as a member of a different party in that same constituency. The most analogous case is George Gardiner in 1997 in Reigate. The Tories deselected him, he ran for Referendum, and only got 7% of the vote. Hoey would be in a similar situation if she opted to join UKIP and win in a borough that voted almost 79% remain. Vauxhall is just the sort of liberal urban seat Labour have been doing very well in recent years, and with the Lib Dems in coalition, I don't think there are many circumstances where they wouldnt win it in 2015. Hoey would be better off running as an independent.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
There have been cases where MPs have been deselected and opted to run again as a member of a different party in that same constituency. The most analogous case is George Gardiner in 1997 in Reigate. The Tories deselected him, he ran for Referendum, and only got 7% of the vote. Hoey would be in a similar situation if she opted to join UKIP and win in a borough that voted almost 79% remain. Vauxhall is just the sort of liberal urban seat Labour have been doing very well in recent years, and with the Lib Dems in coalition, I don't think there are many circumstances where they wouldnt win it in 2015. Hoey would be better off running as an independent.
As a former Lambeth councillor told me over pints, the main difference is that unlike Gardiner, Hoey has a decent personal vote, even if the seat voted heavily to remain, and if Labour made a move against her they would have shot themselves in the foot due to her popularity. Gardiner and Reigate, whilst comparable, breaks down because Gardiner never had the same level of personal support in Reigate as Hoey has in Vauxhall.

Though as you note, running UKIP may be a handicap. Perhaps an electoral pact?
 
As a former Lambeth councillor told me over pints, the main difference is that unlike Gardiner, Hoey has a decent personal vote, even if the seat voted heavily to remain, and if Labour made a move against her they would have shot themselves in the foot due to her popularity. Gardiner and Reigate, whilst comparable, breaks down because Gardiner never had the same level of personal support in Reigate as Hoey has in Vauxhall.

Though as you note, running UKIP may be a handicap. Perhaps an electoral pact?
Perhaps Hoey has more of a personal vote than Gardiner, but equally, Reigate is probably more hospitable for right wing eurosceptic parties than Vauxhall. There has been a whole bunch of cases of candidates getting deselected and running again anyway without the backing of there former party, but I struggle to think of any case of them actually winning their seat at the next GE. The closest I can think of was Nellist in Coventry, who wasn't too far off. Hoey in Vauxhall would be an odd exception to the rule. Maybe running as an independent with a pact with UKIP would help her somewhat, but even so, I can't see her pulling it off.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Perhaps Hoey has more of a personal vote than Gardiner, but equally, Reigate is probably more hospitable for right wing eurosceptic parties than Vauxhall. There has been a whole bunch of cases of candidates getting deselected and running again anyway without the backing of there former party, but I struggle to think of any case of them actually winning their seat at the next GE. The closest I can think of was Nellist in Coventry, who wasn't too far off. Hoey in Vauxhall would be an odd exception to the rule. Maybe running as an independent with a pact with UKIP would help her somewhat, but even so, I can't see her pulling it off.
The key figure in Vauxhall would be the Conservative candidate; I can see Hoey going Nellist levels, but I can't see Labour overtaking her if they've knifed her. And considering the LibDems vote share collapsing and the Greens not really having much of a shot and only really splitting the left wing vote, it would be the perfect storm for James Bellis to win the seat. Depending on how he approaches it, he has a good chance.

Moving outside of Vauxhall, though, if Farage, Nuttall, and others like Aker get in come 2015, if there has been a migration and a number of those migrations retained their seats, I do wonder how long they can keep the Party together.
 
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