WI: UDI for Angola and Mozambique

walmart · Jun 16, 2017

Could the white populations in Angola and Mozambique issue unilateral declaration of independence during or after the Carnation Revolution with South African and Rhodesian Support

How long would these states and South Africa and Rhodesia last

Strategos' Risk · Sep 7, 2017

That's an interesting premise. What if the pro-Salazar bunch flee to Africa?

Seandineen · Sep 8, 2017

It is semi feasible, There is a small but significant source of support among the rural ovambo, and the assimalados. They would form the bulwark of UNITA and FLNA cadres.

Hammerbolt · Sep 8, 2017

Neither province had the industry or the logistics to support the war, everything was brought from "home", including troops. As for the "pro-Salazar bunch fleing to Africa" that's impossible: the revolution caught them completely by surprise (the only way it could have worked) and the army took over the country, locking it down.

walmart · Sep 8, 2017

Hammerbolt said:
Neither province had the industry or the logistics to support the war, everything was brought from "home", including troops.

Couldn't Angola use it large oil supply to fund the war and the white population was 10% in Angola and 7% in Mozambique , Rhodesia hold on with a lower percent couldn't they do the same

Hammerbolt · Sep 8, 2017

Noscoper said:
Couldn't Angola use it large oil supply to fund the war and the white population was 10% in Angola and 7% in Mozambique , Rhodesia hold on with a lower percent couldn't they do the same

In the long run, given enough time? Maybe, but the here-and-now is another matter. All the troops & equipment from the mainland were pulled out by the new government, which meant that the locals would have to create an army pretty much out of scratch. Men aside, no one was going to sell weapons to two new fascist governments. South Africa might, but they allready had their own problems.

Phalamus · Sep 9, 2017

The Portuguese army divisions stationed in Angola and Mozambique were filled with communists and supporters of other leftist ideologies, and even those who had different political views from these were completely fed up with the colonial. They wouldn't fight for fascism. Hammerbolt is correct in saying that any faction wishing for an Angolan or Mozambican UDI would have to create an army from scratch.

Also, it's important to note that the Portuguese colonies did not have the same type of racial ideologies as Rodhesia and South Africa. I heard that in some areas of the south of Mozambique there was segregation, but that was only because of Rodhesian influence and did not correspond to the norm in most of Portuguese Africa.

Lusotropicalism became the official ideology of the Estado Novo regime for colonial matters during the 60s and 70s. The objective was to turn Portugal into a multi-racial, multicultural and pluricontinental nation. This wasn't always done with all seriousness, and just how sincere they were remains a matter of considerable debate, but I don't really see many supporters of the old regime being that adamant about preserving white minority rule. It just doesn't fly with their ideology.

Viriato · Sep 18, 2017

In April 1974, before the revolution, Marcelo Caetano was apparently toying with a plan of having Angola proclaim a UDI later in the year. In 1972, the constitution had been changed whereby Angola and Mozambique were elevated to the status of "Estados Ultramarinos" or "Overseas States" and the Portuguese government began publicly mentioning a "progressive autonomy" for both territories. According to some government insiders, in November 1974 upon reaching the age of 80, Admiral Américo Tomás was slated to step down as President of the Republic and this was to be when a plan to finally rid Portugal of the albatross of the colonies was to be put into action. Portugal's president was a hardliner whom firmly believed in maintaining the overseas empire at any cost, whereas his premier was a bit more pragmatic.

The idea was to foment some sort a disagreement between the metropolitan government and Luanda over the construction of an oil refinery for Cabindan oil in Lobito. The metropolitan government would veto this and the Legislative Assembly in Luanda would protest and leading to a mini-revolt against Lisbon by August 1974. This would lead the Legislative Assembly to proclaim Angola's independence with its Vice-President, Joaquim Mendes as Interim President. The Governor-General, Fernando Santos e Castro apparently was informed of this and was to return to Lisbon with his entourage, whereby the independence would be a fait accompli. Pretoria was to be informed of this plan to immediately fill the military vacuum left by Portugal's departing troops. The new government was apparently to include UNITA and pro-western members of the government.

Johannes Parisiensis · Sep 18, 2017

Given the colonial authorities weren't White supremacists, unlike Salisbury and PRetoria, could they expect less resistance from local population?

Viriato said:
In April 1974, before the revolution, Marcelo Caetano was apparently toying with a plan of having Angola proclaim a UDI later in the year. In 1972, the constitution had been changed whereby Angola and Mozambique were elevated to the status of "Estados Ultramarinos" or "Overseas States" and the Portuguese government began publicly mentioning a "progressive autonomy" for both territories. According to some government insiders, in November 1974 upon reaching the age of 80, Admiral Américo Tomás was slated to step down as President of the Republic and this was to be when a plan to finally rid Portugal of the albatross of the colonies was to be put into action. Portugal's president was a hardliner whom firmly believed in maintaining the overseas empire at any cost, whereas his premier was a bit more pragmatic.

The idea was to foment some sort a disagreement between the metropolitan government and Luanda over the construction of an oil refinery for Cabindan oil in Lobito. The metropolitan government would veto this and the Legislative Assembly in Luanda would protest and leading to a mini-revolt against Lisbon by August 1974. This would lead the Legislative Assembly to proclaim Angola's independence with its Vice-President, Joaquim Mendes as Interim President. The Governor-General, Fernando Santos e Castro apparently was informed of this and was to return to Lisbon with his entourage, whereby the independence would be a fait accompli. Pretoria was to be informed of this plan to immediately fill the military vacuum left by Portugal's departing troops. The new government was apparently to include UNITA and pro-western members of the government.

It could make for an interesting POD.