WI Two Jewish States?

How about 2 separate Jewish states in Israel/Palestine, basically *Israel being split into a communist state and capitalist/western-oriented state by the Cold War?
 
How about 2 separate Jewish states in Israel/Palestine, basically *Israel being split into a communist state and capitalist/western-oriented state by the Cold War?

Israel is small enough as it is that if there's enough division within politics after the State's foundation for the country to divide and align with hostile blocs Syria/Jordan/Egypt are going to rapidly absorb one if not both of the states.
 
How about 2 separate Jewish states in Israel/Palestine, basically *Israel being split into a communist state and capitalist/western-oriented state by the Cold War?

Arabs would like that. Easier throw Jews to sea. So not happen that way. Jews in Israel know that fighting and divide the country due ideology would be extremely stupid.
 
I would be curious whether or not they would be rival both claiming for the title of a jewish state or they would both be self supporting each other and have for example crimea one supporting Israel and possible sending soldiers when Israel is constantly attacked
 
Along with OTL Israel, it would be interesting to see a second Jewish state form in East Prussia, Crimea or Budjak.

Birobidzhan or some ATL analogue would be interesting within the context of a bigger Japanese victory in the Russo-Japanese war, where Japan manages to gain part or all of Russian Outer Manchuria (plus all of Sakhalin) and implements a viable form of the Fugu Plan (with such a region gaining independence after WW2).
Looking into it, Budjak would probably be the easiest. There isn’t that many people there in the first place, easy enough to load them into trucks and send them somewhere else. And even better if there is low population in some places around it to make it slightly larger. Either that or a Crimea, the problem with Crimea is that I doubt the Soviets/Russians are going to give up Sevastopol. Same with East Prussia/Kaliningrad, those are some precious warm water ports.
 
Looking into it, Budjak would probably be the easiest. There isn’t that many people there in the first place, easy enough to load them into trucks and send them somewhere else. And even better if there is low population in some places around it to make it slightly larger. Either that or a Crimea, the problem with Crimea is that I doubt the Soviets/Russians are going to give up Sevastopol. Same with East Prussia/Kaliningrad, those are some precious warm water ports.

In the case of Budjak thought it would have also been suitable for an ATL post-war Romani ASSR, with Crimea could the Soviets/Russian develop a suitable alternative for a black sea warm water port like Sevastopol or even look at building a planned black sea port as it were?
 

Deleted member 109224

Why not the Volga German Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic?

Stalin emptied it out during the war, it's on the Volga (good for trade/shipping), and it has a decent port on the River across from Saratov (Engels, aka Pokrovsk).

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Maybe Taurida minus Crimea could work.

1024px-Taurida_Governornate_Map.jpg
 
Looking into it, Budjak would probably be the easiest. There isn’t that many people there in the first place, easy enough to load them into trucks and send them somewhere else. And even better if there is low population in some places around it to make it slightly larger. Either that or a Crimea, the problem with Crimea is that I doubt the Soviets/Russians are going to give up Sevastopol. Same with East Prussia/Kaliningrad, those are some precious warm water ports.
Budjak is an interesting idea. The Komzet set up a number of Jewish kulkhozes in Crimea, Ukraine, and Stavropol before Stalin's administration pushed them all to the far east. Budjak is right there.

In the case of Budjak thought it would have also been suitable for an ATL post-war Romani ASSR, with Crimea could the Soviets/Russian develop a suitable alternative for a black sea warm water port like Sevastopol or even look at building a planned black sea port as it were?
Soviet interest in Sevastopol is an important point, but I don't think it would change anything. OTL it was transferred out of the Ukrainian ASSR in the 1950s (I think - according to Wikipedia). It would likely be treated similarly ITTL regardless of which minority group's ASSR s in Crimea.

Concerning the Romani: Lenin and Trosky apparently supported Romani emancipation while Stalin's administration rolled that back (note: explicitly Communist source). And according to your source, the Soviet Romani wanted an ASSR in Crimea and/or the Caucuses just like the Soviet Yiddishists in the Komzet did. Adjacent Jewish and Romani ASSRs in the Black Sea region is a very interesting possibility in a "no Stalin" timeline.

Why not the Volga German Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic? Stalin emptied it out during the war, it's on the Volga (good for trade/shipping), and it has a decent port on the River across from Saratov (Engels, aka Pokrovsk). Maybe Taurida minus Crimea could work.
I can't really see Stalin doing anything differently than he actually did re: the JAO. If Stalin is around to ethnically cleanse the Volga in 1941 because of his paranoia, the JAO would be placed to the far east for the same reason.
Taurida is an interesting possibility though.
 
General question: any Soviet-created state (ex: Crimea, Budjak) would be viable after the USSR collapse??
 
With Budjak how many people could the area support beyond its OTL population (especially if any nearby low population areas can be included to make it larger), also what are the main branches of Budjak's economy and are there any underdeveloped areas that can be improved upon (provided the investment is available - My idea of a Romani ASSR at Budjak entailed an ATL scenario where Poland accepts Marshal Plan aid, only for the Soviets to punishing them by taking the money and redistributing it to other Eastern Bloc / etc states)?
 
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General question: any Soviet-created state (ex: Crimea, Budjak) would be viable after the USSR collapse??
I’d think so, as someone else pointed out, many of the former ASSRs were turned into independent countries after becoming regular SSRs. But what may happen is that after the USSR collapse, is that Jews will start to emigrate to Israel. I don’t think any amount of Soviet effort could sever the historical and religious connections to Israel.
 
I’d think so, as someone else pointed out, many of the former ASSRs were turned into independent countries after becoming regular SSRs. But what may happen is that after the USSR collapse, is that Jews will start to emigrate to Israel. I don’t think any amount of Soviet effort could sever the historical and religious connections to Israel.
The Soviet government and the Yiddishist ideology it'd promote ITTL wouldn't sever the historical and religious connections Jews have to Israel. But that doesn't mean there will necessarily be a mass migration from a Yiddishist Black Sea JAO to Israel.

Jewish people make Aliyah primarily for two reasons: they're very fiercely ideological Zionists or they're fleeing antisemitic oppression. If there is less antisemitism in the USSR (possibly achieved by butterflying Stalin) and the promoted Yiddishim in the JAO takes hold there as a counter-movement to Zionism (which was the whole point of the various forms of Yiddishim generally, see e.g. 1, 2, 3 etc.), then fewer Jews would leave the JAO if and when the USSR collapses.

OTL most forms of Yiddishism died out because of the Holocaust, the formation of a Hebrew-speaking Israel, the assimilationist trend among secular Jewish people in the modern West, and its flat rejection by the Yiddish speaking ultra-orthodox. Yiddishism has always been a secular and/or anti-religious left-wing Jewish movement. ITTL if some form of Yiddishism is promoted in the Soviet Union as a socialist anti-Zionist ideology, and if the USSR doesn't destroy it by violently oppressing Jews and repressing Yiddish, then it could happen.

A Black Sea JAO under a less-antisemitic USSR could retain enough Yiddishist (and the mere casually Zionist) Jews after a Soviet collapse to become an independent Yiddishland. I'd imagine that it would even give immigration priority to Jews fleeing persecution (and even anti-Zionists making Yeridah i.e. emigrating from Israel) to provide Jews fleeing oppression an alternative to Zionism.

Compare it to OTL America. Most American Jews are casual Zionists, in that almost everyone agrees that Israel should continue to exist in some form as the Jewish nation-state. But life is reasonably good as a Jew in America. Most American Jews are staying put because America is relatively safe, they're able to make money, and because Israel is far away. Only the most zealously Zionist actually make Aliyah.
 
I’d think so, as someone else pointed out, many of the former ASSRs were turned into independent countries after becoming regular SSRs. But what may happen is that after the USSR collapse, is that Jews will start to emigrate to Israel. I don’t think any amount of Soviet effort could sever the historical and religious connections to Israel.

Likely the case. Yet could see a fairly significant segment of militantly secular / assimilationist Jews or those with some Jewish heritage decide to stay, perhaps seek membership with the EU (if possible despite the potential can of worms it opens) along with embracing foreign investment in general.

It would also serve a potential place for expat secular Israelis (where EU membership would be an inducement), with non-Zionist Left-leaning Jews, those of heterodox sects or those of Ashkenazi Jewish heritage in the diaspora possibly feeling more comfortable identifying with a Black Sea / Far Eastern state from a clean slate POV without any overt religious signs or symbols. Particularly if they feel indigenous to Europe rather than Middle Eastern at heart, Anti-Zionist Religious Jews would also potentially find such a place attractive by quickly opportunistically citing the world accepts such a state.

A Black Sea Jewish State would also open up the possibility the Yiddishist movement would seek to legitimize itself in the area via the historical Khazars (though it appears historically only a minority accepted Judaism in OTL) and even the Crimean Karaites, which is something the Soviets would likely wholeheartedly support as an unsuccessful attempt to counter Zionism since it gives ammunition to critics of the latter (at the cost of further straining relations between it and Israel).
 
Very nice...so, seems that OTL Israel would become a more right-wing and conservative state than the alternate Ex-Soviet Jewish state, right? How would the relations between the two states develop, especially after the 1990s?
 
Maybe a TL with no Jordan, and the British establishe one big Jewish state, which later split along the Jordan river between a capitalist and communist states?
 
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