WI: Turkey Joined The Axis

One of the core principles of Kemalism is to be rather careful with foreign politics and avoid getting too much involved in foreign conflicts. It is an ideology which advocates avoiding risks here.
Joining the Axis is a highly risky move. If they win the war, you could gain a lot (if they are faithful and still want to fullfill their promises), if they loose the war, you loose the war with them.
Similarly joining the Allies too early in WW2 is highly risky, since it would mean war at your borders with highly superior opponents.

Maybe minor border corrections for minor help for one or another side in World War 2 is possible, but you need a government following a different ideology if you want Turkey joining World War 2 earlier.

If not direct involvement how about something like the Spanish Blue Division? A volunteer force raised for service with one of the sides.
 

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If not direct involvement how about something like the Spanish Blue Division? A volunteer force raised for service with one of the sides.
The Turkish president was dead set on making sure no orphans were created by another war on his watch, so I'd think it would be tough to get him to allow that. You'd have to have a pretty different political culture to see that happening, especially given the desire to not upset either side during the war.

That said if the government was different given the Turkish economic situation they'd likely just send some 'volunteers' instead of joining the war unless it looked like things were going to be over soon. I could see where a more belligerently minded Turkey could see the value of sending troops to fight with one side or the other would given them combat experience; IOTL they did send officers to train with both sides and apparently Turkish pilots even flew with RAF Bomber Command on missions over Germany as observers with one even being shot down on a training mission. Likely a 'volunteer' force would be very much like the Spanish Blue division with both a ground unit in foreign uniform with their equipment and organization, but with their own officers up to a certain level of command and an air component. Given that Germany did end up selling Turkey several dozen of their latest fighter aircraft and training Turkish pilots on their use, it wouldn't be hard to see them fielding a Turkish fighter and perhaps small bomber unit on the Eastern Front. As it was they had something like 300 trained pilots, but only 131 frontline aircraft pre-war, so had a surplus of men that could be sent abroad to train/fight, as they did IOTL, but as per OTL they also bought up a bunch of modern aircraft from both sides during the war to have a force ready to defend their country if they should get attacked by either side, so perhaps they'd want to retain as many of their best pilots as possible just in case.
 
my speculation is always that Germany grasps how weak Italy is militarily, makes some type of deal to install themselves in Vichy-controlled Syria, both to open a second front (or at least be positioned to open a second front) and also to insulate Turkey, albeit not to force them into the Axis and gain another unprepared ally?

Germany can't operate in Syria without Turkish cooperation. Vichy won't make that deal. For all their flirting with the Axis, they avoided any sort of commitment that would get them involved in fighting. They never allowed German forces to deploy in overseas French territory.

The raison d'être of Vichy was neutrality to stay out of any further fighting. Pétain didn't actually like the Germans, who were after all still holding several hundred thousand French prisoners.
 
What if Russia join also? Knock out Turkey before war whit CP. Second Balkan war avoided.
Someone pointed out in an old thread that Austria Hungary would probably want to join the Ottoman side, as they would fear Italian control of the Balkans and the Adriatic.
Russia could certainly want to join as well, as they would really benefit from controlling the Bosporus.
I'm not sure how this would avoid the Second Balkan War. Wouldn't Bulgaria feel even more confident in demanding extra land with an almost collapsed Ottoman Empire?
 
Germany can't operate in Syria without Turkish cooperation. Vichy won't make that deal. For all their flirting with the Axis, they avoided any sort of commitment that would get them involved in fighting. They never allowed German forces to deploy in overseas French territory.

The raison d'être of Vichy was neutrality to stay out of any further fighting. Pétain didn't actually like the Germans, who were after all still holding several hundred thousand French prisoners.
What if the Turks do what Japan did to French Indochina and just take Syria, no questions asked? It could be a big propaganda win in Turkey to retake the tomb of Suleyman Shah.
 
Turkey didn't want a lot of additional Kurds and Arabs. And also, Japan was a lot more powerful than Turkey. French Syria held out against Britain for over a month, so it wouldn't be easy. But even if they did it, why would they then join the Axis? They would have got what they wanted, why take more chances?
 
Someone pointed out in an old thread that Austria Hungary would probably want to join the Ottoman side, as they would fear Italian control of the Balkans and the Adriatic.
Russia could certainly want to join as well, as they would really benefit from controlling the Bosporus.
I'm not sure how this would avoid the Second Balkan War. Wouldn't Bulgaria feel even more confident in demanding extra land with an almost collapsed Ottoman Empire?
Whit Russia as main combatants they will decide border between Serbia and Bulgaria. Whit Ottomans out Romania and Greece will not attack Bulgaria.
 
Germany can't operate in Syria without Turkish cooperation. Vichy won't make that deal. For all their flirting with the Axis, they avoided any sort of commitment that would get them involved in fighting. They never allowed German forces to deploy in overseas French territory.

The raison d'être of Vichy was neutrality to stay out of any further fighting. Pétain didn't actually like the Germans, who were after all still holding several hundred thousand French prisoners.

the tabled Paris Protocols included bases at Dakar, Bizerte, and Aleppo. of course the Vichy were perfect barometer so once invasion of USSR began they became elusive?

my stipulation was that Barbarossa delayed or cancelled. the Turkish cooperation I had in mind was use of their railway and overflights? (Swiss allowed trains thru? do not recall rules for that if any?)
 
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