WI: TSR 2 survives?

Using magical butterflies, Lord Mountbatten and Lord Solly Zuckerman do not oppose the TSR 2 project seriously enough to put the Australians off of buying it, and the approval is given with a target operational Date of January 1st 1967.

If the RAF and RAAF buy them and they are produced, who else would and what would the operational consequences be for other aircraft be? e.g. F111, PANAVAIR/BAE Tornado/SU-24 Fencer?
 
We get them in about 1969 for about $250 million, as opposed to 1973 and $350 million for the F111 which was 5 years late and $200 million over budget. We never lease the Phantom and US F111 hardly notices not building our 24 F111s.

The Tornado is never even thought of.
 
Tornado as we know it is as dead as a very dead thing. Much of the work was done by BAe people who had worked on the TSR 2 so without British involvement its going to be German-Italian project with a different end product.
 
The TSR 2 might be a bit old hat for the Saudi's to purchase instead of the Tornado post GW1.
Given that the prevailing theory is that the Tornado doesn't exist.
BUT...
In the same way that the Shah of Iran ordered what became Challenger I tanks when the British Government were happy to slog on, (slowly thanks to repeated breakdowns), with Chieftan, the RAF may soldier on with the TSR 2, but the chances are that the Saudi's or Iranians would want something better.
This could lead to a future TSR based aircraft, given that this was the late 70's/early 80's, probably with early stealth technology, and/or better engines, (Arabs love going fast - hence the Arab love of the EE Lightning). Which with the fall of the Shah would result in the Army getting Challenger as per OTL and the RAF getting the FTSR aircraft at a discount.
I think Typhoon would still happen in the same way though. Same with the Harrier.
 
Given the timescales, Tornado wouldnt be built.
However it might mean they build the P110 project as an air superiority fighter in the early 80's.
That would be nice, I worked on that - cancelled due to the inability of the Euro-worshipping governments to make a descision to build something British which would have been bettter and cheaper than a bastardised cooperative venture. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Given the timescales, Tornado wouldnt be built.
However it might mean they build the P110 project as an air superiority fighter in the early 80's.
That would be nice, I worked on that - cancelled due to the inability of the Euro-worshipping governments to make a descision to build something British which would have been bettter and cheaper than a bastardised cooperative venture. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Please describe P110 project.
 
Think Typhoon with a Hornet's tail and then add an 80's design flair to it. (I just googled it :eek:).
All in all, it didn't look too bad - very similar to the F-35 frisbee failed Stealth fighter candidate, but better looking.
 
Isn't that just the cutest little scooter. Save the trouble of dreaming up a TSR fighter conversion.

ip110.jpg
 
Think Typhoon with a Hornet's tail and then add an 80's design flair to it. (I just googled it :eek:).
All in all, it didn't look too bad - very similar to the F-35 frisbee failed Stealth fighter candidate, but better looking.

Pretty much.
It would have been at least as good air-air as a Typhoon, cost half as much (maybe less, if the government stopped changing the spec every few months), and in service by the end of the 80's :mad::mad:
It would have been a great match for a Mk2 TSR2.

However the government was completely fixated on the idea of a Europan aircraft, and apparently incapable of looking at the figures which told them a joint project would cost MORE (as well as taking twice as long, which means its out of date by the time it reaches service).

Bitter? Lets just say I understand how the Canadians feel about the Arrow....:mad::mad:
 
British Secret Projects: Bombers Since 1949, Tony Buttler

Page 112

A month later (November 1963) the Germans showed an interest in the aircraft as a replacement for the F104G; possibly 400 aircraft might be needed. Federal Minister of Defence Herr von Hassel and his party saw the prototype at Weybridge in May 1964 but there were concerns in the British Cabinet about repercussions in the UK if the Germans were allowed to buy an aircraft capable of delivering nuclear bombs, despite the fact they were still under United States custodial arrangements.




Hell of an F104 replacement.......
 
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