WI: Trotsky leads the USSR instead of Stalin?

[James Ricker]

Trotsky believed in international communism during the Great depression he would cause trouble worldwide.
A right-wing Germany would emerge with support from the United States France and Great Britain, I doubt Hitler would be in charge.
World War 2 when start sometime in the 1930s and the Soviet Union would have no allies

 

[Ace009]

Trotsky believed in international communism during the Great depression he would cause trouble worldwide.
A right-wing Germany would emerge with support from the United States France and Great Britain, I doubt Hitler would be in charge.
World War 2 when start sometime in the 1930s and the Soviet Union would have no allies

So, who wins, assuming the US only helps in the sense of supplies rather than direct involvement?

 

[Cudymcar]

By then, how many copies were there?

Lenin dictated it to Krupskaya in 1922, then she sent it to the Central Committee.

 

[Ace009]

Lenin dictated it to Krupskaya in 1922, then she sent it to the Central Committee.

Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. You don’t think Trotsky could have overheard Lenin dictating it to Kruspkaya in this timeline, then stolen the original version, edited it to remove the bad shits about Trotsky and used it to discredit Stalin in 1924, do you?

 

[Cudymcar]

You don’t think Trotsky could have overheard Lenin dictating it to Kruspkaya in this timeline, then stolen the original version, edited it to remove the bad shits about Trotsky and used it to discredit Stalin in 1924, do you?

No, it's a Disney animation, not a plausible TL.

 

[Ace009]

No, it's a Disney animation, not a plausible TL.

Oh. Plan B. Let’s go with that earlier PoD (Trotsky gets appointed as successor instead of Stalin). So, how the hell is alternate WW2 panning out assuming Stalin doesn’t simply use the testament to discredit Trotsky and thus, still gaining power?

 

[Cudymcar]

Too many critical events between Trotsky gaining power and 1939. Trotsky can even prevent Nazis coming to power.

 

[Ace009]

Too many critical events between Trotsky gaining power and 1939. Trotsky can even prevent Nazis coming to power.

Really? Noice. So......how to into alternate WW2?

 

[Cudymcar]

how to into alternate WW2?

You don't need Trotsky to nuke Russia.

 

[Ace009]

You don't need Trotsky to nuke Russia.

I meant as in: how does WW2 in this timeline look like?

 

[Cudymcar]

how does WW2 in this timeline look like?

Close to OTL or nothing like it. Too many probabilities.

 

[Ace009]

Close to OTL or nothing like it. Too many probabilities.

Ooof. So, ok. What are the critical events that led to WW2? And in what ways does Trotsky affect each one?

 

[Ace009]

Also, how fast would Russia industrialise under Trotsky compared to Stalin?

 

[Cudymcar]

And in what ways does Trotsky affect each one?

In 1931 Trotsky definitely advocated united front of Communists and Social Democrats against Nazis in Germany. If this policy is actually embodied, Hitler never comes to power. If there's WWI, it's nothing like IOTL.

 

[Ace009]

In 1931 Trotsky definitely advocated united front of Communists and Social Democrats against Nazis in Germany. If this policy is actually embodied, Hitler never comes to power. If there's WWI, it's nothing like IOTL.

Oh, I get it. SPD-KPD coalition government, anyone? And to be fair, this is the same Trotsky that advocated for a permanent revolution, sooooooooo..............yeah.

 

[PobreCesar]

Regarding an SPD-KPD coalition forming the government there are effectively two possibilities. Either the conservatives accept this, or they attempt a coup. If stage a coup, the timing is important. I could see them trying to restore the monarchy as a pretext for military dictatorship. Depending on how built up the USSR's military has become, Trotsky may or may not attempt to intervene or may simply supply weapons to the overthrown communists. Germany could become this timeline's Spain.

If they accept the communists in power, then 1) the Communists will be forced to become a "responsible" party and some other group will become the voice of disaffected leftists with no stake in the system and 2) it will legitimize their philosophy with the rest of the population, with many people coming to feel that communists are just another strain of political thought and not some international conspiracy for the destruction of Germany that must be destroyed at all costs.

 

[Ace009]

Regarding an SPD-KPD coalition forming the government there are effectively two possibilities. Either the conservatives accept this, or they attempt a coup. If stage a coup, the timing is important. I could see them trying to restore the monarchy as a pretext for military dictatorship. Depending on how built up the USSR's military has become, Trotsky may or may not attempt to intervene or may simply supply weapons to the overthrown communists. Germany could become this timeline's Spain.

If they accept the communists in power, then 1) the Communists will be forced to become a "responsible" party and some other group will become the voice of disaffected leftists with no stake in the system and 2) it will legitimize their philosophy with the rest of the population, with many people coming to feel that communists are just another strain of political thought and not some international conspiracy for the destruction of Germany that must be destroyed at all costs.

Wouldn't Trotsky need to get past Poland first? Also, what happens if the Russians intervene directly?

 

[PobreCesar]

He would need to get past Poland which is why I think non-direct intervention is a lot more likely. (Maybe he could make some sort of deal with the Poles, but I find this unlikely. If anything, I feel that TTL's Germany might get along well with Poland under the Sanacja.)

Honestly I have little idea what a Soviet-German war in the early 1930s would look like.

 

[Ace009]

He would need to get past Poland which is why I think non-direct intervention is a lot more likely. (Maybe he could make some sort of deal with the Poles, but I find this unlikely. If anything, I feel that TTL's Germany might get along well with Poland under the Sanacja.)

Honestly I have little idea what a Soviet-German war in the early 1930s would look like.

Well, if it's the early 1930s with Germany in a state of civil war, the Soviets pretty much eat Germany alive.

 

[33k7]

Well, if it's the early 1930s with Germany in a state of civil war, the Soviets pretty much eat Germany alive.

yeah an the British and French I'm just going to sit by and watch this happen

Trotsky probably ends up getting the Soviet Union killed by a European coalition