WI: Trotsky leads the USSR instead of Stalin?

The idea that Trotsky charges the Red Army headlong into the guns of the rest of Europe because.. he's an inept ideologue? I don't really buy that, he managed the Red Army during the Civil War and will likely be aware of its strengths and weaknesses. I strongly doubt he will "invade Germany" outright with no grand strategic plan - far more likely is the smuggling of arms and equipment to various leftist organizations within the Weimar Republic. I do think he will array some sort of coalition of countries against him, but "the Red hordes pouring into Europe under Lev Bronstein" the first chance he gets is a tired alternate history trope.
So, no alternate WW2? I mean, if he's selling Mosin-Nagants to the Germans, wouldn't that set the stage for a German Civil War between the KPD, the Nazis and Weimar loyalists?
 
The idea that Trotsky charges the Red Army headlong into the guns of the rest of Europe because.. he's an inept ideologue? I don't really buy that, he managed the Red Army during the Civil War and will likely be aware of its strengths and weaknesses. I strongly doubt he will "invade Germany" outright with no grand strategic plan - far more likely is the smuggling of arms and equipment to various leftist organizations within the Weimar Republic. I do think he will array some sort of coalition of countries against him, but "the Red hordes pouring into Europe under Lev Bronstein" the first chance he gets is a tired alternate history trope.
I never said anything about Trotsyk invading outright with no strategic plan. You seemed to have assumed that idea.
 

Ulyanovsk

Donor
I never said anything about Trotsyk invading outright with no strategic plan. You seemed to have assumed that idea.
Wasn't specifically referring to you, but the common thread seems to be that Trotsky just unleashes the Red Army in all directions all over Europe and is promptly curbstomped which seems a little less than realistic
 
Wasn't specifically referring to you, but the common thread seems to be that Trotsky just unleashes the Red Army in all directions all over Europe and is promptly curbstomped which seems a little less than realistic
To be honest, Trotsky did want to steamroll Germany "over the corpse of Poland" in 1920, so it's not completely baseless.
 

Ulyanovsk

Donor
So, no alternate WW2? I mean, if he's selling Mosin-Nagants to the Germans, wouldn't that set the stage for a German Civil War between the KPD, the Nazis and Weimar loyalists?
Probably an alternate WW2, but it depends on what happens in Germany - The interwar Entente could give Germany a blank check under Reichswehr and militarists to rearm with maybe civil war (although probably just harsh repression) and from there stalemate. Or, the Allies dont and Nazism rises as per OTL and appeasement almost certainly still goes ahead given the bigger threat in the East. Possibly a WW2 without Brest-Litovsk goes down.. I'm away from my computer right now so this is just spitballing, nothing too developed
 
Also, Trotsky was an idealist, but he wasn't stupid. He would have to get creative to achieve the "Permanent Revolution".
 
Wasn't specifically referring to you, but the common thread seems to be that Trotsky just unleashes the Red Army in all directions all over Europe and is promptly curbstomped which seems a little less than realistic
They probably got the idea from AlternateHistoryHub's video on "What if Stalin Never Came to Power." I personally have some issues with it. For one, he suggests that he would invade Germany preemptively, not really supporting that idea either—What's in between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany? Poland. And if Trotsky doesn't at all trust Hitler, then why would he make the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact with him? By the time any military confrontation between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union can even possibly begin, the Nazis will have already painted themselves as the bad guys from head to toe. I personally find it more likely Trotsky would support the German communists, which may or may not change how or whether Hitler comes to power ITTL.
 

Ulyanovsk

Donor
To be honest, Trotsky did want to steamroll Germany "over the corpse of Poland" in 1920, so it's not completely baseless.
Certainly, but so did all the optimistic Bolsheviks who believed all of Europe was on the verge of Revolution - by the power struggle of the late 1920's the situation has changed a lot
 
Probably an alternate WW2, but it depends on what happens in Germany - The interwar Entente could give Germany a blank check under Reichswehr and militarists to rearm with maybe civil war (although probably just harsh repression) and from there stalemate. Or, the Allies dont and Nazism rises as per OTL and appeasement almost certainly still goes ahead given the bigger threat in the East. Possibly a WW2 without Brest-Litovsk goes down.. I'm away from my computer right now so this is just spitballing, nothing too developed
Assuming, of course, the KPD doesn't take over Germany instead. Right?

On that note: what happens if the KPD takes over Germany?
 
Anyway, in this timeline, how would you guys expect WWII to pan out of Trotsky starts it on this one?
 
IIRC Lenin's "testament" had not-too-flattering things to say about Trotsky as well as Stalin... I thought he had critiqued nearly all of the Bolshevik higher-ups, exc maybe Molotov who was sort of considered a colorless non-entity at that time...
 
IIRC Lenin's "testament" had not-too-flattering things to say about Trotsky as well as Stalin... I thought he had critiqued nearly all of the Bolshevik higher-ups, exc maybe Molotov who was sort of considered a colorless non-entity at that time...
Well, I didn’t say Trotsky wouldn’t do his own changes to the testament to make it look like a criticism of Stalin. So............ :3
 
Well, I didn’t say Trotsky wouldn’t do his own changes to the testament to make it look like a criticism of Stalin. So............ :3
Assuming there is only one copy, and Trotsky somehow steals it from Lenin's dying hands and then changes it in his own writing...
 
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