WI: Triple Entente standard rifle cal. 1910

should the board

  • create a brand new cartridge

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • adopt an existing cartridge

    Votes: 13 61.9%
  • modify an existing cartridge

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • Total voters
    21
Might this not start a preventative 1910 war by Germany/AH/+ to try and win before it becomes impossible?
It is not a big enough factor.
The Germans were expecting to win two decisive short campaigns (France and then Russia) followed by an admission of defeat and peace talks. Small arms logistic commonality is a signal of preparing for a long war, which voids one of the assumptions of the German plans.
The significant factor is the political will behind the common weapons idea, and that would not be preempted once existant.
 
Entente (or at least Anglo French, the Russians are logistically screwed) standard rifle the Enfield P13 in 7mm Mauser, loaded 10 round en-bloc clips based on the system used in the French Berthier Rifle.
 
But the OP above is 1910.....
i feel i need to clear some things up
the reasons for picking 1910 are:
1 the entente was solidified with the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1907, i wanted to give it a few years to develop before i tried forcing the idea,
2 as you pointed in another post, 1910 is cutting it close, waiting makes things that much harder
3 the last great development in bullet tech was in 1905 with spitzer's, the next one will be ball powder in the 1920's, this is a great time to look around and put together

also, i put the op's guidelines together because i've seen other threads on the matter drift towards "let's just make assault rifles" and i want to avoid that here
 
All 3 had reasons to change. The Lebel 8mm was an historical accident that they knew needed improvement on the day it was chosen. The .303 needed to go to a rimless style. The same for the Russians. Both the British and French were actively intending to change just before the war.

However. The Russians were not going to change something that worked unless it was part of an improved weapon system (ie semi automatic). The French merely wanted a better round system that could be used for box magazines and semi automatics. The Lebel 8mm bullet ballistics were fine with them. The British wanted a militarised marksman's rifle through wrong conclusions from their last war. Everyone wanted to keep full power battle rifles.

What they actually needed was a 6.5mm Carcano with a modern spitzer pointed bullet but none would accept that at the time.

What adds up to a reasonable compromise is the OTL French 7.5x55 but it does mean making rifles to suit or converting existing ones. What actually happened in the Entente was that local ammunition making made the local ammunition type. The major international ones made whatever was needed. The cost of the dies etc. is small in proportion to the numbers and the major capital cost is the factory and running it. Britain made ammunition for all sorts of types as did the USA for example. IOTL this did the job and a change to a common Entente cartridge would have been caught midway. The Russians would have needed to field all sorts anyway.

Overall I think it a nice idea but carries too much risk in comparison to the benefits. A NATO common ammunition was wanted to allow individual units to restock from any of their allies in the field. In 1910 cross supply was done at a national level not at battalion level so it would be best left alone. I shall vote for an existing cartridge as there is no 'best leave it alone' option.
 
I suspect it would be much more sensible to get an Anglo French common round than a triple alliance common round.

This would be because the British would be more likely to fight in France and therefore being able to simplify logistics is a good thing. Also Russia had just finished switching front line rifles (and cartridges) and that process took them around 15 years.

I'm afraid small arms calibres isn't something I'm an expert in so I won't contribute to the debate of what the idea calibre would be.
 
what the idea calibre would be
9mm/7.62 in a simple blowback SMG made by toy companies, but it would never be accepted unless you where very devious and sold it as a cavalry carbine.....
 
Last edited:

Zen9

Banned
So it's possible that a calibre comission would conclude something like a 7.62 by 55 rimless round.....which is not far from.....Argentinian Mauser? Or for that matter the 7.62 NATO / .308 Winchester.
 
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